78: The Inner Game of Business w/ Chris Wilkinson

Why long-term success starts with self-leadership and how to align who you are with the business you’re building.

Why You Need to Listen:

Most entrepreneurs focus on tactics and hustle, but overlook the one thing that actually determines long-term success: self-leadership. In this episode, business coach and columnist Chris Wilkinson joins Sean Patton to break down why your inner game is the key to outer performance. If you're building a business but feel stuck, scattered, or unfulfilled, this conversation is your mirror and your momentum.

About the Guest:

Chris Wilkinson is a holistic business coach, five-time entrepreneur, and longtime leadership columnist. With 20+ years of business experience, Chris specializes in helping entrepreneurs develop self-leadership, clarity, and sustainable performance. He's also the co-owner of a senior care franchise, a former hockey captain, and a prolific contributor to business and leadership thought.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why self-leadership is the foundation of all business growth
• The “wheel of leadership” framework Chris uses with every client
• How to reframe failure using the “100 no’s” mindset
• Why most vision statements fall short and how to align your life and business
• The difference between confidence and worthiness
• How to get out of your own way by identifying your “brake pedal”
• What you're really willing to suffer for and why that matters

Episode Chapters:

0:00 – Why you need to hear this
 2:30 – From hockey to holistic coaching: Chris’s story
 6:00 – What is self-leadership and why it matters
 9:15 – Clarity, energy, mindset, and the 8-factor leadership wheel
 14:30 – Why entrepreneurs overestimate 1 year and underestimate 5
 18:45 – The “100 no’s” method and the problem with chasing outcomes
 24:20 – Locus of control: what’s in your hands vs. what’s not
 30:45 – The gas and brake metaphor: what’s holding you back
 35:50 – How to build resilience (and what you’re willing to suffer for)
 41:00 – The power of purpose, giving, and intentional leadership
 45:00 – Final mindset shift: from “I have to” → “I get to”

Connect with Chris: 

Website: https://www.coachingwithchris.ca/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachingwithchris/

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No Limit Leadership is the go-to podcast for growth-minded executives, middle managers, and team leaders who want more than surface-level leadership advice. Hosted by executive coach and former Special Forces commander Sean Patton, this show dives deep into modern leadership, self-leadership, and the real-world strategies that build high-performing teams. Whether you're focused on leadership development, building a coaching culture, improving leadership communication, or strengthening team accountability, each episode equips you with actionable insights to unlock leadership potential across your organization. From designing onboarding systems that retain talent to asking better questions that drive clarity and impact, No Limit Leadership helps you lead yourself first so you can lead others better. If you're ready to create a culture of ownership, resilience, and results, this leadership podcast is for you.

Transcript

Sean Patton (00:01.142)
Before we roll the intro, let me tell you why you need to hear this. Chris Wilkinson is a holistic business coach, five-time entrepreneur, and leadership columnist with over 20 years of hands-on experience, helping founders unlock clarity and elevate performance. In this episode, we break down what self-leadership really means and why your inner game determines your outer results. You'll learn why most entrepreneurs burn out chasing outcomes they don't even want.

how to reframe failure by going for 100 nos and how to stop living in the past or future and start leading from the present. If you're a leader who wants to grow with intention, show up fully and build a business that aligns with your life this conversation delivers. Let's get into it. Welcome to the No Limits Leadership Podcast. We discuss ancient wisdom, real world experiences, and the latest concepts on mastering leadership of self and others. If you're committed to maximizing your life and your impact on the world, you're home.

Welcome to the No Limits Leadership podcast in your host, Sean Patton. Today we have the pleasure of welcoming Chris Wilkinson, a dynamic holistic business coach dedicated to empowering entrepreneurs to achieve greater clarity and profitability. In addition to over 20 years of business experience, Chris has had a really cool and amazing background. He's been the captain of a hockey team. He is Canadian after all. He's been the owner and general manager of a million dollar company, chair of a franchise advisory council and more. He's a prolific author.

contributing a serial column to his local newspaper for over 15 years. His passion about helping others uncover their inner potential and aligning their values, vision and purpose to achieve success. So Chris, welcome to the show. I'm excited to get this started today, Thank you, Sean. Blessed to be here. And what a treat to talk leadership with you today. That's been awesome. We talked about the Four Nations tournament just before this. we had, you know, man, wasn't that cool? Wasn't that, I mean, the outcome, it was so fun.

Like 10 years since we've had a tournament like that and to replace an all-star break, think the NHL is actually leading the charge and how to make an engaging all-star break. When you throw in the, the battles that were had, these guys are all playing against each other in the NHL. But when you throw your flag on your Jersey and go to war like that, that, provides some engaging, entertaining hockey. I'm sure you saw it up there, but you know, down here.

Sean Patton (02:23.542)
the, the memes in the comments about how, you know, the NFL is playing flag football now for their all star break and, know, the NBA, like no one's playing defense and it's basically just like trick shots. then NHL, you're the first USA candidate. It's like, they're throwing down gloves and throwing punches on the ice, like three fights in nine seconds. It's like, okay. All right, NHL, you got our attention now, you know, did a good job. a lot of us Canadians have so much respect for any player, whatever country they're from and the Kachak brothers.

are absolute beasts out there. And you're seeing Matthew Kachuck for Florida wins the cup last year, goes into this tournament, supposed to be an all-star break. And the guy has now got an injury where he's going to be out medium to long-term. so, like you said, they're laying their bodies on the line for this tournament, which is very different from, from many of the other formats for sure. For sure. Yeah. So we'll see, we'll see, there's a lot of money out there. So we'll see if other, other people do it. At least as a spectator, we can appreciate that. Chris, we had an interesting conversation before this and you work with.

a lot of small business owners, a lot of solopreneurs, people that are the founders of these companies. And that's a lot of our audience as well. And why is it that you chose to focus on the aspects of self leadership when there's, you know, there's so many things you can focus on as those people who live in busy, crazy lives, but why self leadership? Well, it's been my journey is the short answer, Sean, having.

I've started five businesses now over the years, a couple of them that are very forgettable and a couple of them that are memorable. And my business partner and I started a seniors home care, elder care franchise 2008. And it's one that I still co-own with my business partner. It's a business that really helped me develop as a business owner. And looking back on it now, I left operations of our business in 2021.

to go become a coach. I knew that the universe was speaking to me and guiding me that I needed to go in that direction. And some of the greatest learning that's come out of those last four years has been that my self leadership wasn't very strong and that my standards weren't as high as I want them to be. You can even correct that statement for when we get really hard on ourselves and our inner critic really gets like wound up and start.

Sean Patton (04:41.526)
I'm taking that out even because I've managed mine fairly well moving forward. I'm just saying factually, I wasn't being very strongly self-led and yet I knew that I wanted to be. So that informs how I coach business owners. I'd been a business owner, a small business owner, air quotes local business owner for the last almost 20 years. And I love coaching who I once was. And I think we're best suited to serve those we once were.

Even if only one or two steps behind us, we're coaching those people. think those are the people that we can really connect with. Cause it's not like me going to somebody like a Tony Robbins or a Ned Maillet and saying, coach me, be an amazing opportunity, but they're just in a different stratosphere. They're in the billionaire mindset. They're in different levels that maybe I wouldn't connect with as much. So I think we're, we're best suited to coach those we once were and not that long ago. you work with your clients and, and these entrepreneurs and founders.

What's, how do you find out and establish where they are in self leadership? How do you start to establish, okay, where are they strong? Where are they weak? What, what, how do you establish what are their limiting variables that's holding back from their next level of success? Yeah, well, having conversations like this is where it's all started and love sharpening steel with steel. So having a conversation with somebody like you that I can speak leadership to, and I've used some chat GPT to go along with that. So.

When you and I talk about key variables that go into self leadership, I have an exercise I use with my clients. Do you want me to speak to that? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. So the wheel exercise is a common one in coaching. You and I have both used it in various, various degrees. You can throw any eight variables around a wheel and score them. And it really helps funnel down to the one thing that someone wants to work on at any given time. And so for me, the eight variables that I choose to use in my self leadership exercise with my clients, one is

clarity and vision. Another one's around time and energy management. Another one's around health and wellbeing. Another one's around mindset and heart set. And there's a handful of others. If I was to really focus on three big ones, the clarity and the vision, I think it starts with clarity. I think everything kind of starts with clarity. If we had to establish an order, I think that relationships and communication, Sean, as I know you do, you believe that effective communication and trust building and relationships are at the heart.

Sean Patton (07:09.462)
of our human experience. And I don't think we need to go any further than the Harvard grant study, which is one of the longest, if not the longest running study on human behavior as it pertains to relationships and that love and relationships are really that number one driver for us in terms of our happiness. And then resilience and adaptability. And I think that speaks to commitment as well, resilience and adaptability. It speaks to our ability to pivot.

when we need to, which in today's world is so important. And then self responsibility and integrity is another one along with abundance mindset. So there's eight factors. Three of them are really key and I wouldn't want to get away from them, but as you and I both know in coaching, we lead by following. so whatever results that my client in front of me in the moment comes up with on their real exercise, we're going to speak to that top one factor that

comes out for them in terms of where they want to drive their self-leadership forward. I had actually some interesting conversations recently with different folks around clarity and vision for themselves. And how do you even define success and how do you define, how do you get from even define what do I want to do with my life? Where am I headed? How do I clarity? And then dial that back down to like, so what's action am I taking today?

Right? Like that's that, that, that, that system development. When you work with, you know, your clients and you work with leaders and you talk about clarity and vision, do you find that they have a clear vision for, say their business, but maybe not themselves, or are they sort of winging it on both accounts? Like what, do you help them in focus when it comes to clarity and vision first? such a great question. If I get off track, you bring me back. There's a lot in there and how I coach and probably how you coach too is.

the being and the doing together. You can't separate out the two. You can have some really strong frameworks and suggest some really strong actionables, but unless the person is willing to grow themselves, like I use this analogy of it's like DNA, know, DNA is like a double helix and both backbones mirror each other and they grow together and spiral upwards. I look at that as just something my brain understands as the being and the doing grow together. And so,

Sean Patton (09:33.408)
When a leader or an entrepreneur comes to me and they say something like, Brene Brown shared in her Ted talk where she goes to a counselor and she says, look, I need some help, but let's not dig into any of that childhood shit. No family drama. Let's not talk about that. Just give me a better to do plan. If someone comes to me like that, I can't deal. That's not who I work with the best. My best clients are those that understand that they're going to grow and their business is going to grow. And the two, can't really separate.

So in terms of the self leadership piece and the clarity, it all starts with one of the world's greatest questions. What do you want? And to answer your question, most of my clients come to me with an idea of what they want in their business, but they're either not clear or not empowered about what they want in their life to match it. Every business owner goes into a business with this pipe dream of it's going to be amazing. I'm going to work my tail off. And in about a year, year and a half, maybe two years at the outset,

I'm going to have that dream life that I'm envisioning and dreaming about. It doesn't work like that. The process, the entrepreneurial journey is fraught with pitfalls like any worthy journey is. And when the entrepreneur jumps into those first several months and gets that first holy shit moment of, wow, I don't know if I can do this. It gets real, real fast. And I bet.

You've got several examples that could back that up to whether it's your business or a friend's business or people you've coached. And that's when the journey really begins. That's when the grit and perseverance and resilience have to show up. That's when the commitment gets tested. And so again, about the clarity piece, it's really asking enough times, what do you want? And then the most powerful coaches will challenge it. We'll lean into intuition. We'll use their listening skills and.

look for patterns that show up for the client about where they're not showing up fully. And I think that's where we really get to make a difference is challenging to show up fully our clients for themselves, for their staff, for their team, for their loved ones, showing up fully in all those areas. If I'm not having a conversation on all eight of these areas of self-leadership with my clients, either I chose to work with somebody who's not in my wheelhouse.

Sean Patton (11:58.866)
Or I'm not stepping up fully into my coaching. know, it reminds me of, I think it was Alex Ramosi, but I could be misquoting, but we were saying, you know, everyone, but entrepreneurs especially, under, or used to be overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what they can do in five. And that really hit me because especially in today's world, we're all in this, we're so used to everything happening so fast.

and everything changes so fast. And as long as when you have a clear vision, it almost gets more frustrating because in your head, you can see this thing. And I know with my business, was like, I know what I want this to become. And I hit a wall about a year or two ago. was just like, this should just be happening. Cause it's been in my head and it's been so clear and I've been envisioning it and it's not reality. And what's wrong with me?

Am I not supposed to be doing this? Should I pivot? You know, what's next? And, and I do think that reframing time and I think that's a place where a coach can really come in and help. Where if you just change the time scale a bit, um, and give yourself some grace and just think through that, like, look, I'm going to, I'm going to push. But sometimes as in life, if you push too fast, like the universe and all the things that around you that have to work the

market, the relationships, the trust building, all those things you talked about. Those takes time and you can't force and be like, I'm just going to work harder and gain people's trust faster. That's not going to happen. I'm going to work faster and that's just going to network and people are going to refer me faster. Like, nope, like it's going to take the time it takes. And another Alex Hermosy thing that stuck with me was when he decided he was going to get into content making and branding.

And he met with this YouTube expert and YouTube experts. And he, of course, he's like, Hey, we're to spend, know, 30 grand a month or whatever. We're going to, you he's going all in on this stuff. uh, and he was like, I want to build a strong personal brand. And he's like, okay, what's your vision? He's like, look, I don't know. You're going to figure that out. He's like, I'm going to this for 10 years. And if it doesn't work, I'll stop. And the guy was like blown away. He's like, you're the only client I've ever had that came in and said, I'm doing this for 10 years. Then we'll assess not how many, how can I get to a million followers in 90 days?

Sean Patton (14:23.202)
Like everyone has these immediate results. And I think it affects us mentally. I think these unrealistic expectations to your mindset point put us in a negative space when we set these immediate expectations instead of laying out over a long-term saying, you know, in five years I can accomplish great things and laying that out and giving ourselves grace on time scale for clarity of vision. Amen, brother.

You think about all the things in society right now that are pulling our dopamine circuit into quick reward territory and how opposite everything is designed to work against long-term perspective. And also a Hermosy fan. My son's 21. He runs a business. He's getting into sales and offers more. He's a big Hermosy fan. And it might even have been Jim Rohn originally said that piece about we underestimate.

five years and we overestimate one year. So if people can hang on and yeah, there's a whole lot of discussion in there. Like a business owner, did they have enough cash to hang on for three years? You know, that's a totally separate conversation. But when you're driving your business forward and you've got a clear vision of where you want to go and it's not happening, Mike, if I can ask you a question, looking back at a couple of years ago when you hit that sort of ceiling and that stuck point, what have you reflected on in terms of

a potential why it didn't. And I love where you went there in terms of sometimes the universe just teaching us that we need to be a bit more patient. But what else came up for you in that when you digested it? think the biggest thing for me was, and this has been a giant, I don't think it's like a new revelation, but I've really sort of codified this over the last couple of years. It's just, and I think this goes actually into the sort of clarity and vision. So maybe we can tie it into that is.

really focusing on process over outcome, right? That measuring success, not by, when we start measuring success on outcome on things we can't control, we put ourselves in an external locus of control, right? We put ourselves in a helpless, hopeless state inherently. So we're ourselves up for failure, right? It's like, you know, I wrestled growing up. I still do Jiu-Jitsu, right? I own a Jiu-Jitsu gym and it compete.

Sean Patton (16:46.766)
I use an example, one of my talks where it's like, you know, I, was trying to play catch up when I was wrestling in high school because I didn't start wrestling until I was in junior high and I got really good pretty quick. So then I was wrestling against kids on the national team, right? That started when they were five. And so you're trying to constantly catch up and the only I can control is my work ethic. So I worked, worked, worked. And my senior year, I go to state finals and I literally came back was all in and I lost in the finals, 10 to six to Dustin May, right? Who I'll never forget.

Uh, and, and, and he he was 156 in one in high school. He was a four time state champ, two time national champ. And so it's just this whole thing of like, you can do everything right. You don't control who steps on the mat across from you, right? You can do everything right in a sales conversation. You don't, you don't control what's going on in that person's head. You don't control outcome. And I think it's really important. And I think this is a moment of like tension and a moment of maturity for business owners, for self leadership, for leaders in general of how.

for an organization to function, you have to have some sort of goals, right? Everybody's just smart goals or whatever. have to have something on the wall that says, I'm gonna hit these projections, I'm gonna hit this pro forma. And then, but tying that in a realistic faction down to, day to day, I'm gonna focus on what are the processes and systems and actions I need to do to increase the probability, to maximize the probability of achieving outcome, recognizing that I don't control whether I hit outcome. I can only increase the probability

by my actions. so switching, you know, like right now, for example, one of my focuses to grow a business line for me is actually my speaking, right? Over coaching and stuff I've been doing is growing my speaking in the podcast. And I realized, I'm like, man, I'm not on track to hit my numbers for 2025. As I reflected on that, and then I reflected, you know what? I haven't been told no in the last six months. What's, wait a minute.

what they're doing something wrong. If you're, if you're trying to sell something and you've never been told no, like you're doing something wrong. And so as I thought through that, I'm like, I am, I am not putting myself out there. I'm not asking enough. I'm, networking and talking to people. And once I feel safe, you're, I just sort of offers come in, but I need to push. so my tracker for this first six months of the year, the only tracker for me for speaking business is I have a tracker where I have to get told no a hundred times. buddy.

Sean Patton (19:08.634)
strong. That's it. Like, and I know that my probability of creating enough momentum to hit my numbers, if I do the work to where a hundred people have to tell me no, it's not a hundred percent, but I think it's pretty good and I can control that. So, so that's an example of taking the clarity of vision of where I, where someone's going to wants to be, but then how do you break that down into something that you can own and control and we can control our attitudes, our processes.

our, you know, our decisions, our actions, we can't control the market or to someone else says. And so attaching our egos, our self-esteem to something like that sets us up for success, or should be sets us up for failure. is so much goodness in what you just said. Remind me if I forget to come back to the control of the controllables and the locus of control piece in a second, but I just want to acknowledge that going for no's conversation. It's a sales conversation. How much you're, you're.

referencing or alluding to that sales is largely an inner game. Yes, a lot of skills and you and I are very authentic in our sales. So we're only going to sell from an authentic place. We're going to fight for the person in front of us when it comes to handling objections. And if we truly believe we're the right fit for them, which you have to go through the whole conversation to really know that. But when you know that and there's an objection that comes up to fight for them in that moment, man, you got to have not only confidence, but you got to have worthiness.

Like, and Jamie Kern Lima is one of those authors, that worthy book that she wrote. I loved reading that book and it helped me advance my worthiness to the point where my worthiness really shouldn't be. And, and, and I wish I could say can't be, but I'm human. It can't be dependent on external factors. It has to be just because I'm blessed enough to be on this earth, taking this human journey. I'm 10 out of 10 worthy. Doesn't mean I'm.

not fallible, doesn't mean I don't make mistakes every single day, but I'm worthy of the experience. To me, that's the difference between worthiness and confidence is that worthy is 100 % internal, just being in touch with, I get to have this human experience. And the confidence piece is more external based on things we've done, based on how rooted we are in our strengths, based on how willing we are to make mistakes.

Sean Patton (21:33.07)
based on how willing we are to do hard stuff, based on how willing we are to celebrate small wins, not just big wins for longer than 3.2 seconds. And so there's a lot of great stuff in what you shared around going for no. And I don't know if you want to jump in there or if you want me to leap right to the story. I have a story literally from four hours ago, three hours ago, a client conversation about controlling the controllables. May I share that? Please. So I'm working with.

a business in the education space and it's the mother and the son. And the mother has taught for 30 years, teacher, tutor, mentor. She's amazing at it. And you know, the E-Myth book, Michael Gerber, they're like personification of the technician and the entrepreneur role. The son really has entrepreneur spirit. He is willing to fail forward. He will not quit. He is

the representation of the role you want being your director of sales and marketing. He loves Hormozi. He loves reading Russell Brunson, $100 billion offer. He is leading the charge in that area. And yet the mom is still the leader in the business and wearing that CEO hat. And so literally the conversation we're having today is going over their one-page plan, looking at their swath.

And we're developing their SWOT and I'm reading the threats and a couple of the threats were related to the competition in their market and what the economy is doing. And we jumped right into a conversation about control the controllables, focus on the process, internal locus of control. And my assertion to the sun was we were having this conversation specifically today. My assertion was there's too much external locus of control in these statements.

And he was very open to this conversation, I will say. It's not me directing it, but to keep it short, the question to him after explaining external versus internal locus of control was, if you brought more internal control, control the controllables to those two statements, how would they be different? And the conversation that followed was around, okay, so instead of maybe putting 60, 70, 80 % of the focus on what's going on out there, what if only 5 to 10 % of the focus was

Sean Patton (24:00.248)
What's going on out there to be aware of it, to inform our decisions, but maybe in terms of the competition, that statement on the threat becomes if we don't really connect on our differentiators, if we're not able to clearly communicate our differentiators in our community, that's the threat with more of an internal locus of control language and viewpoint around it. Yeah. No, I, I love that. And, you know, just to add to that, the.

I think that the real cost there has to be emphasized because the time you spend, or I should say excess time you spend on those external factors or worrying or arguing or contemplating them, every moment you do that is not just wasting that time, but that's time you're taking from focusing on the controllables. And so you're decreasing and going back to life is to me, it's just probabilities, right? And so you're decreasing the probability

of outcome of desired outcome, every minute you spend focused on external factor that is beyond identifying it to come up with what's in tone or controllables. And, you know, I actually had, an example I use all the time is, I had a client, it's actually Canadian. So I flew into Montreal, I was in, is in Quebec and it was, they, had the founder of the company and his daughters are running the company now.

And they had, he had built like by hand this beautiful cabin on like a gorgeous Canadian crystal clear lake, you know, ever. Okay. All right. By the way, they're all crystal clear. They're all gorgeous. And, and it was awesome. And I know I drive two hours out there and they had flown in their sales reps from all over the world. You know, like how much money they spend flying these people in. And now we did this exercise and I was talking about intellectual looks control. And so we did, let's do a team exercise. And so I said, well, let's.

And what's your main issue or main discussion point for this, for your retreat here? They said, well, we've, second year in a row, we missed revenue. Okay. So we put up, not hitting numbers. I said, let's just write down every variable you can think of, everything that impacts the fact you didn't hit revenue. And they wrote all of them down. And then it was like, okay, check mark left or right. In your side, your control, outside your control. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And it went through and they're about halfway done. And they just start giving each other these looks, know, looking across the table.

Sean Patton (26:25.37)
And then they're looking at me and I'm, yeah, and I'm just like, all right, there's, there's something going on here and I'm not privy to it. So like, finally I asked like, what's going on? You guys are giving me some weird looks and the CEO just without even having to like ask or reference, cause they were on the same page. She goes, we spent eight hours on this yesterday. Probably six of it. Six of the eight hours was spent on things outside of control. Think of the actual, like if you, you know, if you got the real like, you know, number crunchers and CFO in there, what's the cost of six hours of.

All of 14 sales reps all over the world in a mountain cabin talking about things that aren't going to, that don't increase the probability of success. And what's the opportunity cost of spending two hours versus eight hours on actually coming up with solutions for this company for the next year. Right. And so I really hit them, hit them home. And I hope everyone listening can take the comments you're making and how I'm making it and, look at not, at not just their business, but their life.

And like where, where's the, you you talk about like energy, right? In a lot of your content, like energy management, time management, where's the energy leakage when you're focused on external controllables instead of internal. when you literally delve deep into that question with your clients, are the big energy leaks often coming from thinking patterns or are they often coming from just things that they're missing? Cause they don't know what they don't know. I don't know if that's a fair question or not, but.

Usually it's, well, it's interesting because you put time and energy management together because it comes from not being intentional with their time. So distractions, right? Not being efficient with making sure that the things that are the highest priorities are getting done and getting done first. Maybe because there's resistance or they're difficult or they're uncomfortable. And so instead.

busy work or other distractions or emails, wherever else takes up the time. And then, we never get to the big, know, hairy thing we need to get to. And I think that also the mindset or the thinking systems around, especially time of past and future really get people, right?

Sean Patton (28:46.788)
too much time spent and rumination on the future, creating anxiety of what if this happens and that happens and you your point, the market and the administration and the tariffs and the, and whatever else, right? Or, or what if this happens or what if, you know, so-and-so doesn't like me or whatever else is going to happen. And, or rumination on the past mistakes. And as you know, both of those

Ruminate on both of past or future past. What you mentioned, we ruminate on the past just to learn lessons. What lessons can I pull to the present moment? And then the rest and then let it go. And then future, what is, what is the setting out there? What's the probability? Okay, cool. Take that data. How do I make decisions now? But anything outside of that puts us automatically in an external locus of control because we can't control future and we can't change past. So the only timeframe, the only thing that has actually the only thing that's real.

is the present moment. It's the only thing we can affect. I think that is, I think most people live in the past or future and it puts them in a victim helpless state creating anxiety and depression. And I think for most business owners, it's future state. Which is more tied with the anxiety piece, right? We're stuck in the past, Delphs, maybe a little bit more tied with depression.

Yeah, it's fascinating. You made me think of a story and I'll use this metaphor and story with my clients sometimes about a simple gas and brake pedal. And I'll share a quick story if we have time. When I was five or six years old, already my parents were divorced and I never saw my dad much. He'd fly down and come visit us for a handful of days at a time. And then he'd have to go back to run his business in the different town.

I think he had great intentions looking back, but we just never saw him. So the opportunity to see him was like, I'll never forget how special it was to go and like to see him and spend time with him. And one of the things he would do would be to take us to a fair, an exhibition where there was rides and go-karts and I'm five or six years old and I'm in the lineup with him and my older brother to go on the go-karts. And looking back on it now, I'm like, you would never see a five or six year old be allowed to drive a go-kart.

Sean Patton (31:13.39)
But I was, and the attendant gave me about a 10 second lesson. He's like, that's the gas, that's the brake, throw this little seatbelt over you and go. And I'm excited, right? Like I'm just like super excited in the moment. And what I remember the most about that moment, as soon as he said go, both my feet went onto the gas and the brake pedal at the same time. And I got pretty strong legs, right? I was pretty active kid. And you know, in a go-kart, the gas on one side of the steering wheel, the brakes are on the other and both feet.

went on 100 % on both pedals and I can hear the engine roaring. I can hear it. I can remember the sound now. The engine's roaring and I'm not moving an inch. And I think the carry over here for my clients and hopefully the listeners find value in this too, is that usually we've got enough gas. Usually we've got enough like power on the gas in terms of knowing where we want to go. Can it be more clear? Sure. But usually we've got enough direction forward. Where we get tripped up is in the brake pedal.

And that represents everything that holds us back. Our inner critic, our inner judge, perfectionism, avoidance, victimhood, self-limiting beliefs, all the things that are on repeat with that computer program in our brain, just going round and round and round and round and just playing that same story on repeat. know, Tony Robbins talks about it too, state story strategy, the story part, the part that we're telling ourselves all the time. That's also a part of that brake pedal. And so.

We'll get much more bang for our buck, much more return if we focus also on what holds us back, what gets in the way. And I don't know about you, but I can coach myself on certain things and I can journal, but not like a powerful coach can coach me and help me uncover where I'm getting in my own way, where I have outdated beliefs, where I'm not showing up fully. I need someone else to reflect that for me.

I think everyone does. It's nearly impossible to see that. I mean, it's nearly impossible to even see your business objectively because you're so emotionally involved with much less your own essence or consciousness, your own decision-making. So I think it's so important to have a coach, trusted advisors, everything. I've got multiple peer advisory groups. I've got multiple coaches. I tell people all the time, right? I've got a coach for every

Sean Patton (33:37.658)
every part of my life that I feel is important, um, for that exact reason. Uh, and so I agree. And I think, you know, one thing that came up for me was also with coaching and in your factors that I'm really interested is the resilience piece and how you help, uh, people grow resilience over time. What's that look like? First thing I think of is the word passion.

And it's been overused and it's got some definition around it that may be not quite accurate. But the root word, Latin or Greek, I can't remember, maybe both, but the root word Latin for passion, passio, means to suffer. And when people can literally go deep enough asking themselves or having someone else ask them the question of, what are they willing to suffer for? You're a new dad. I've got two sons, they're 21 and 17.

And they are my life. They are the reason that I do anything because I love them so much and they're amazing guys. And the favorite part of my whole life is spending time around them. And I love coaching. So what am I willing to suffer for? And I can't remember if it was Prof. Scott Galloway or somebody on a podcast said like, what are you willing to die for? And that's an easy one for me. And I think probably an easy one for you now too.

And so when we can answer that question, what we're willing to suffer for, that is a major piece of resilience. There's also some great research. Dr. Robin Hanley Defoe out of Toronto is doing some great research on resilience right now and how our relationships and our circle around us is a huge part of that, which I don't think you'll find any surprise around that. How hope is a big part of that and optimism, how humor is actually a real big part of that.

And you know, when I talk about resilience and what my clients are willing to suffer for, and the last thing I'll say, and then I want to hear your take on it too, is that persistence piece. And persistence is a great word and we can throw it around and we can use it, but you and I are guys that are willing to get our hands dirty and willing to get into the mud and fight with our clients. When we think about persistence and Dr. Andrew Huberman from Stanford talks about this on his podcast about the

Sean Patton (36:01.244)
anterior cingulate cortex and about that area of our brain being the seat of the willpower and about what we're really willing to fight for and stick with. And, and he helped me understand through, through his words that I can develop mine, that I can throw a growth mindset around that instead of a fixed mindset around that. And that as long as I keep reaching four or five or seven or 10 % outside of my comfort zone every day, or from atomic habits, the 1 % improvement.

idea, like whatever numbers and snappy phrases we want to throw around that, but how am I challenging myself to step four or 5 % outside of my comfort zone on a regular basis so that my ACC keeps building its muscle and I keep driving forward? I didn't start off as a super strong leader. I always kind of had it in me. It needed a lot of development and it still will, but just keeping fighting for what's important to me, what I'm willing to suffer for is, is.

how I and my clients will stay resilient. I think that it's interesting how much, at least to me, you know, we started off this conversation with talking about clarity and vision, how that comes into play when you're trying to identify what am I willing to suffer for, right? Like if you don't have clarity and vision of where you're headed and why you're headed there and what impacts you're trying to make, then it's really hard to build resilience, right? I have Nice connection.

Yeah, I have a family member who's, who's been like this and it's sort of that curmudgeon and like, try? And, know, it's like always below often performance and miserable and depressed because it was, they never came to a clear vision outside of like, why should I suffer? Right? Like what, what is out there? And I think as human beings, we're tribal creatures. And so I'm a firm believer that your clarity, your vision, has to be around.

goals of impact. So ultimately, your ultimate North star has to be about how you're impacting others in order to create fulfillment because any sort of selfish gratification or selfish goal, it could be the best smart goal on the planet. You're going to get it. And then what, right? It's going to be fleeting. You get the nice car, you get the younger girlfriend, you get the whatever new title or you make a million dollars and it's, it's not, it's never enough. get, you get a thousand likes on your, your comment or whatever on social media and then.

Sean Patton (38:26.471)
Now you want 10,000, right? It's this dopamine hit in a cycle. And as long as it's about you, it'll never be enough. It's literal addiction, it's dopamine. But when you focus on others is when we experience joy and love and oxytocin, and you can't OD on love. You can't OD on joy. And so designing a life around clarity and vision of how am I impacting others? And then things like

profitability, things like titles, things like all those other things that come with it are not the main thing. They're a secondary consequence of this pursuit of a noble purpose greater than yourself. That is the path to fulfilling life. bringing it back, I think to your point, I love that you said that, what are you willing to suffer for? Now you build resilience because I'm willing to suffer for that. I'm willing to suffer for.

you know, our tribes, as we create tribes, I'm willing to suffer for my family. I'm willing to suffer for the betterment of my community. I'm willing to suffer for the betterment of my team. and so we can, we can do that. And I think another concept that came up from you that is, well, what are you willing to give up for that? Like you're willing to suffer for it, but what, what are you going to let, you know, you mentioned the break, like, what are you going to let go of and sacrifice? Because if you're going to have.

focus in these certain areas of impact. what, what are you going to, mentioned, you know, coaching and your sons and all that, like there's, there's, know, you're giving up, you know, watching the hockey game or whatever, because you're to go spend time with your sons or whatever that might be. Right. Like there's something lesser important, but until you have clarity around what is actually going to create a life of fulfillment, it can be very hard in the moment to make an accurate decision. much good stuff on what you say. I'm reminded of.

Tony Robbins' six human needs and that growth and giving are the two that are the spiritual ones, as he would call them. But I would also say the ones that are like super purposeful driven as well, growth and giving. I'm reminded of the Matrix movie when Neo's in the meeting with what's the character called? The sage character where she predicts or can help them arrive at decisions and over top her door in the kitchen.

Sean Patton (40:51.963)
is the Latin saying about know thyself. And I think part of what you're sharing is you got to know yourself so that you know what direction to go. How can you have clarity if you don't know what's important to you? Like what's your why? What's your big reason for being on this earth? And then how do you action it? And so the purpose is why you're here and you need to kind of know that. It doesn't need to be this real arduous process. There are probably only

eight, nine, 10 real whys in the human journey, but how you action that is your mission. And so take your purpose, put it into action, make it your mission. Understand that growth and giving are a huge part of that as you've alluded to. we, what is that old saying about we make a living by what we get, but we create a living by what we give. Like we create so much meaning in that. And man, that.

that piece about how we give back, how we contribute. There's so much fuel in there. And I think a word that you and I both really like is that word intention. Yeah, I think at end of the day, intentional living. I could go on this for a bit. To me, I have this concept and I want to wrap the question by that. I obviously believe in intentional living. And I had a question from a friend of mine one time. We were at like a get together party or whatever.

I was talking about this intentional living and this drive and striving and just like, know, Sean, not everyone's like that, right? Like not everyone, what do you say to that person? Like some people just don't think like that. They want, and I'm like, they don't reflect on gratitude enough. Like if someone literally, if you don't, like we are so fricking privileged, all of us to be living in this time and this place, like our lives are so much better and easier and full of so much opportunity compared to literally,

every other human being that has walked the earth right now. And it's because of that, because billions of people before us have struggled and strive to create what we just were gifted when we were born. And if you don't, and you have the potential for impact on others and a potential to live a great life, a meaningful life, and if you don't then feel an obligation, you're not reflecting on the gratitude because, you know,

Sean Patton (43:17.769)
To whom much is given, much is to be expected. All set. Amen, brother. Can I share a quick story with you? we have time for a quick story? Yeah, go for it. So a buddy of mine, Randy Mullen, runs an organization called Impact Circle, and he'll work with organizations, he's even working with nonprofits now on how to drive their engines forward so that they can give more intentionally. It's a beautiful mission. And he got a group of 23 of us together. This was just two and a half weeks ago. We were down in Baja, California, and Mexico.

We went to Ensenada and we built a home for a family who was living in squalor. Hardworking family, beautiful Christian values family. I'd never done a trip like this before. So it was really my first opportunity to go impact a family in this way. And it's everything you're speaking to in terms of the moment we handed them over the keys, even the moments before that of like banging nails, putting up drywall, scraping the mud.

painting the walls, doing all the things to build this house in under 72 hours. And then having their priest come to the house, the home, bless the home, give them the keys. They don't know how to even operate a door lock. These are the things that we take for granted, as you said, as you and any of your listeners will understand a tremendous amount of gratitude, feeling blessed.

And then coming back and to be honest, I'm still unwinding that whole piece about how it's impacting me and how it's flavoring my coaching. But I will say this, never from a place of should, but from a place that get to, I get to allow that experience to shape who I am as a coach, as a leader, as a father, as a friend, as a partner to my partner, Jen, who's an amazing human also. it just, I get to bring that back now and let it.

permeate how I show up, how I behave, how I up-level my practices and my standards on a daily basis. And we get to do that. As humans, we get to do that. And now more than ever, that clarity of intention, intentionality, and the privilege that we have almost simply by being born where we were born, and then we take it from there.

Sean Patton (45:38.089)
But we had a huge leg up to your point. Just being born white males in a privileged society. I don't, I don't even understand it fully. And so I won't get out of my depth, but just the blessing that it is to be able to impact people on a day-to-day basis, call by call basis. Hopefully a listener takes away something from this conversation that they can action and stay committed to and that they're willing to suffer for.

you know, one of the questions I was going to ask you at the end is, you know, if you could sort of embed one mindset shift in an entrepreneur, what would it be? But I think you may have just answered it with, if we could maybe shift during those moments, those difficult moments in someone's day, if we can individually ourselves shift from I have to, to I get to, I think that's a mindset shift that at least I would imbue in every entrepreneur and person I work with. Yeah. Thank you for saying that.

I was really reminded about that from Dean Grassiose, who works with Tony Robbins a lot, right? And Dean's a legend in his own, what he's accomplished. And to be able to reframe it as I get to go do this, I get to have this impact and that idea of around growth mindset. And there's one question that always brings it home for me. And I will preface it by saying, me, you, all your listeners.

All my clients, all the people I know, we don't get to choose the moments that the challenges get laid at our feet by the universe, by God, whatever word someone wants to use there. We don't get to choose the moment. We often don't get to choose the challenge. But to Victor Frankl's point, we get to choose how we respond in that moment. And we get to choose to be better by facing that challenge. Sure, sometimes we've got to rest. Sure, sometimes we've got to pull back in certain areas, but we're always choosing. This has been fantastic.

someone's trying to learn more about your coaching and what you're up to, where should they go? They can either go to my website at coachingwithchris.ca or find me on LinkedIn. I love to connect with people and just have a chat, no obligation. I just love connecting with people. I really get the importance of connection for us on this journey, no matter where we're at on the journey. And so either website or reach out to me on LinkedIn and say hi. That's awesome. And we will definitely put both of those links in the show notes.

Sean Patton (47:59.133)
Chris has been great man, as always, I appreciate you and the work you're doing and thank you so much for being on today. Thank you brother, appreciate it, love you lots. Thanks for being a part of the No Limit Leadership family. This isn't just a podcast, we're a movement of no limit leaders driven to unlock our greatness and lead the world forward. If this made you think or gave you something useful, please, please, please, right now, go hit follow and then share it with one leader you believe in. Challenge limits, develop leaders, fuel great.