Why Resilience Beats Talent: Ep72

Talent might get you noticed.
 But resilience is what keeps you in the game.

In this episode of No Limits Leadership, I sit down with Ryan Lavarnway—MLB veteran, Olympian, and leadership speaker—to unpack what it really takes to lead, grow, and thrive over the long haul.

Ryan shares stories of being cut 26 times in his pro baseball career, choosing purpose over prestige, and how to lead people based on who they are, not just what they do.

🎯 In this episode, we cover:

• Why resilience is the real X-factor in performance
• How to lead role players and top performers differently
• What great managers do when delivering hard news
• The power of mission, identity, and playing the long game
• Leadership insights from fatherhood and Olympic baseball

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🔗 Connect with Ryan Lavarnway:
Website: https://www.ryanlavarnway.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlavarnway

🎧 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more real conversations on leadership, mindset, and purpose.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Resilience and Leadership
01:51 Mindset: Embracing Failure as a Starting Point
04:08 Identifying Success and the Power of Belief
06:16 Balancing Goals with Present Reality
10:13 The Importance of Process Over Outcome
12:44 Leadership Lessons from High-Performance Environments
21:32 The Need for a Mission
23:31 Understanding Individual Motivations
26:53 The Importance of Team Roles
27:41 Peer Leadership and Authenticity
30:24 Experiences in the Olympics
34:41 Leadership Lessons from Fatherhood
36:01 Choosing Your Tribe
38:37 Defining Success Beyond Sports

Transcript

Sean Patton (00:18)
Welcome back to the No Limits Leadership Podcast, where we explore the mindset, habits, and leadership principles that help us break through our limits and unlock our full potential. Today, I'm excited to be joined by Ryan LaVarnway, an accomplished professional athlete, Olympian, major league baseball veteran who has played for some of the iconic teams in baseball. Ryan's career is a testament to resilience, adaptability, and high performance leadership. Over his 15 year career, Ryan has faced intense competition, pressure, and career defining challenges.

yet through it all, consistently found ways to adapt, persevere, and lead both on and off the field. And the episode today, we're gonna dive into the mindset that helped him reach the pinnacle of professional sports, leadership lessons learned from playing at the highest levels, and how he's translating those skills into life after baseball. So Ryan, so glad to have you on, man. I'm excited to have this conversation with

Ryan Lavarnway (01:05)
Sean, what an intro. I need to borrow that for my speaking events. That's way better than what chat GPT came up with to intro me for my speaking.

Sean Patton (01:08)
Yeah.

Well, I, know, I'm available for hire at a small fee. I'm happy to come with you. we were talking about, know, you got upgraded to amazing presidential suite. I'm sure we could work something out. I could sleep on the couch. We could, we could do this, man.

Ryan Lavarnway (01:17)
Good evening.

Yeah, for sure. You're the hype man extraordinaire.

Sean Patton (01:26)
I do my best over here. man. I'd like to just hop right into it. So like you talk a lot in your, in your speaking and when you work with companies on mindset and resilience and also you've done this at such a high level, what do you think set you apart from a mindset perspective in your profession to help you translate those skills from like college and you know, high level amateur sports to the professional level.

Ryan Lavarnway (01:51)
Yeah, I mean, you want to dive straight into the nitty gritty. think there's a couple of things. Number one, failure is a starting point, not an end point. Right? Every one of my stories that I talk about, it starts with a failure. And then how do we rebuild from there? So how do you start from a failure, not let the story end there? Number two, I got really, really, really good at not quitting. And I think that that's part of the, it's kind of tied into the failure is the beginning at the end.

is that when something hard happens, when you come up against something, that's the stepping stone. That's the starting line of how do you use that to make the next story better? And again, when I'm speaking, I really, really believe mindset is everything because I am not a physically gifted human being. Like yes, I am now tall. My baseball card says I'm six foot four. I'm probably like six two and three quarters.

Sean Patton (02:44)
You were, you

were, some lifts on the, on the measurement day. Now there you go.

Ryan Lavarnway (02:47)
Yeah, well, spikes help, But

like, so I'm large. But other than that, I'm not particularly strong. I'm certainly not particularly fast. I don't have a gifted throwing arm. The thing that I have is that I can figure it out. Right? Your ability to figure it out. I can figure out how to hit. I can figure out how to get a home run. I'm not going to hit a 500 feet. I'm not going to hit it 110 miles per hour, but I can hit it 103.

and get it into the first row and I could do that 155 times as a pro and that's pretty darn good, right? I could figure out what lifts are gonna help with my body. have hip limitations range of motion, ankle limitations range of motion. Every major league team I played for told me I should have surgery to saw off some bone so that my hips would work better and I was like, no, I'm gonna figure out how to make it work and they're like, it's a miracle you're a professional athlete at all with your limitations and I'm like,

It is, and I'm gonna show you what's possible. So it's all about believing in what's possible, refusing to give up, and believing in your ability to figure it out.

Sean Patton (03:53)
I agree with you a hundred percent. And if someone's listening, they're like, I, I want to be that person. Like, like I want, I want to approach failure in that way. Where do they start? Like where does, how do they get that mindset ball rolling?

Ryan Lavarnway (04:08)
I mean, I feel like quoting Carol Dweck is like overdone at this point, but right. Everyone's, everyone's quoting her. can't, you can't, the research is there, but like my dad, even in school, right? Cause like not everyone's going to be a professional athlete. I understand that being an athlete, being a Marine, being a green beret, whatever that's 0.00001 % of the population. People can't do it, but people can achieve whatever they're.

Sean Patton (04:15)
Go ahead and do it, go ahead and do it, go ahead and do it, yeah.

Ryan Lavarnway (04:36)
crazy big dreams are. They could become millionaires. They could become high level leaders in their organization. They can start a business, right? That's what I'm trying to get with my speaking is like, I'm not trying to help you be a baseball player. It's not realistic, but whatever your dreams are, let's do that. And let's do that to the next level that you didn't even think about. So if that's what you're going after, number one, I believe the most successful people identify with their success and failure is just an event. But they don't identify with.

Right? In my career, I hit 155 home runs. I was a power hitter. I struck out 955 times. But I wasn't a guy that struck out a lot. Right? That's how I see it at least, because I identify with the wins, not the losses.

Right, like I was a player that when I got drafted, they said that I was a catcher slash first baseman. I had never played first base in my life on that day. They were changing my position because they knew how bad my defense was. So that's where I started. But I knew I'm going to get better. I'm going to do everything it takes to get better. And there was one year I got ranked as the best defensive catcher in my minor league that I was playing in. So you want to know how I identify? I identify as a guy

that developed into the best catcher in that league. I developed myself into a good defender. Now maybe there's a little bit of thinking you're better than you are in there. There's a little bit of like you fake it till you make it in your own head. And I believe there's times to be realistic. There's times to like know where you are, know where you need to go, cause you know where you are. And then there's times where you need to believe it's possible. Because if you don't believe it's possible, if you don't believe in yourself and your own potential,

You're not going to live up to anything. You have to live up to what you think you should be, what you think you can be, what you think you will be.

Sean Patton (06:16)
And how, so how do you, and maybe this is going even deeper, like how do you balance the, the striving for excellence and the pushing and all that with also living in the present moment and being real realistic with, you know, where you are right now and being okay with that.

Ryan Lavarnway (06:34)
Yeah, I'm so glad you said that. I couldn't sleep last night. I was thinking about things I need to add to my speech. What can I improve? Where can we go? And this hits exactly on the topic that two things are true at the same time. Right? There's a duality. And I think, you know, I'm Jewish. I don't want to talk religion. I don't want to talk politics. I don't want to talk any of the stuff. But just as far as Judaism, I think that they do such a beautiful job of like...

We believe in this God that is so much more powerful and wonderful and positive and beautiful than us. Like we are so far below him, but he loves us anyway. Right, and think, know, Christians probably believe in a similar, like God is almighty, all powerful, all present, all whatever, and we are not that, and he loves us anyway. Two separate things at the same time. Right, and I think about it the same way. Like you have to think of this big goal.

I relate it back to baseball because that's what I understand and I think everyone can see themselves in the story. If I wanted to lead the league in homers, right, or my sophomore year of college, I led all of NCAA in batting average. I won the national batting title, right? That is a goal that takes six months. That's a goal that takes the entire season. It's 190 at bats, right? That's my goal. That's my focus. That's in the back of my mind. That's guiding.

That's guiding me every day. That's my North Star. I wanted to be all American. That's a goal that takes a year. With that, I needed to focus on every 0.4 seconds that the pitch was in flight. Because if I don't take care of all the 0.4 seconds when I'm trying to hit a 90 mile per hour fastball, the big goal doesn't happen. So you can believe in the potential. You can know where you're going and focus and have it be your North Star. You can have your company mission, vision, and values on the wall.

You can have your vision board on the wall. That takes eight months. And also understand that I need to do the daily habits. I need to do the little things on a micro scale to get to that macro goal.

Sean Patton (08:26)
You know, I love that. And I I think about in terms of attachment. it's interesting. I, I don't know if I consider, I don't, I don't really consider myself a full blown like Buddhist or anything, but I do study and like a lot of Buddhism. liked the philosophy and, one of the big principles on that is non-attachment. And so it's kind of similar to how you mentioned it. And so I love the way we're tying, like, this is this holistic approach to, to mindset and to life here is.

If you, can set a desired outcome or you say, you know, like a North star you're heading toward, but the reality is like, you know, you could say, want to be an all American. Okay. And you could do everything right. And still not become an all American because somebody else, you know, outside of your control, you know, hit a, you know, you had 150 home runs is I know we're, mixing, we're conflating major leagues and you know, a college now, but like, and somebody just happened hit 200, right. Or whatever, right. You could do everything right.

So if you judge yourself on that, you're really setting yourself up for suffering. You're setting yourself up for failure and really assessing, say, I still want to accomplish that. And then what I can attach myself to is the process, you know? And it's funny you brought that up because I love that set up on my whiteboard over here because I was running into this, I just may have been on my whiteboard now for two years because I was running into this, the disappointment, like you mentioned, the failure. And I was trying to work through those things as an

as I was switching business models and, and then I put down, you know, stay in love with the process. Life is just the process. Right? Like nobody, where nobody wins at life. Like we're all, we're all playing a losing hand right now. Like, you know, we're all, it's all going to end, but what matters is how we live and how we show up. And I love the example that you brought up there.

Ryan Lavarnway (10:13)
Well, I don't think I ever landed the plan or closed the loop on the Carol Dweck like quoting her comment, right? But like my dad growing up in school, it was, I don't care if you get straight A's as long as you do your best. So it's like, did you do your best regardless of the outcome? And then that transfers over to baseball. I don't care if you make the All-Star team. I don't care if you're a starter or the bench player, are you doing your best? So when I was raised, it was always the effort that was praised.

Sean Patton (10:17)
Please.

Ryan Lavarnway (10:39)
And it's the same thing. I think you need to set that North Star because I believe in my heart and this is one of the things, the stories I tell in my keynote is that my goal was to become All Ivy. I wanted to be the best in my league, which is admittedly a very small pond to be a big fish in. It's a very small pond. And I told my hitting coach I want to be All Ivy League. And he's the one that raised the bar for me. I had never considered being All American.

There hadn't been an All-American at Yale in 25 years, not for baseball. So when he set the bar for me, he set the new North Star, the higher, brighter, more powerful North Star. That was what I did. And I believe very, very strongly that if all Ivy League had been my goal, I would have won all Ivy League, but not All-American. So when you set that North Star, set it high, set it far, set it so that if you get there, you're proud. And also understand that

You need to embody the person that accomplishes that. You're not going towards just the goal. It's the daily habits. It's that duality, the big North Star, the big goal, and then the daily habits to embody the person that deserves that thing. And then whether you get the end result or not, you've become the person that deserves it.

Sean Patton (11:50)
I love the way you did that because to me, you how I describe leadership, right, is becoming, becoming the person that other people want to follow. And so it's that same embodiment mindset and of, like you mentioned, you're, you're embodying and you're focusing on how do I get better? How do I become the person that deserves that, and embodies it? And we can apply that to accomplishing anything we set up in life. And as leaders, that's,

a critical aspect, because it really is about becoming a person, embodying the type of person that almost compels other people decide to follow. And so I think for leaders, this is incredibly important. you you've had a lot of experiences in athletics and you went to Yale, like all these high performing teams. So what leadership lessons, what are the top leadership lessons you took away from your time?

in these high level competitive environments.

Ryan Lavarnway (12:46)
Yeah, as a leader, people will live up or down to your expectations.

and you need to take ownership of conversations and communication. So number one, favorite manager I ever played for in the big leagues, Terry Francona. I played for him in Boston, I also played for him in Cleveland. He sent me down to the minor leagues more than anyone else. Right? He fired me from being a big leaguer, ripped my dream out from under me more than anyone. Favorite manager I ever played for. Because when he did it, he took ownership of the conversation. Ryan, we gotta send you down, we gotta make a move.

Right? We, we, the organization, we, the management team, we, I own it. Right? But when he sent me down and I tried to make it easy for him, right? I'm a pro. I can handle it. I can go down to the minor leagues. I'll go down. I'll work my way back up. He goes, no, he's the first one that ever told me being a realistic evaluator doesn't always serve you because in the major leagues, there's 780 jobs, right? It's the best league in the world.

At your position, there's 30 teams. So there's 30 of your job in the world.

Who believes that they realistically are the best 30 in the world? Like that's insane. So you have to be just dumb enough to think you're better than you are until you start proving it, right? And he's the one that said that as he's sending me down, he's telling me today you're not good enough, but tomorrow you should believe you are. Think about that. There was another time late in my career, you know, I say I got sent down from the major leagues, I got traded, released.

a total of 26 times. I got fired from my dream job 26 times. On the 25th call up, right, I know who I am. I know I'm the bubble guy. I'm just good enough or I'm just not good enough. On the 25th time, he was the one that called me up that last time. And when I got there, I had my tail between my legs a little bit. I'm very humble. I'm trying to just not make a splash. I know I'm there.

because someone else got hurt. I'm there for a seven day concussion DL. I'm going to be here for seven days and then I'm gone. I already know I'm fired before I walk in the door. As I walk in the door, he goes and he tells me something that he did not objectively have to say. And I know this. He says, Ryan, we had the opportunity to trade for a major league All-Star. And all of the coaching staff got together in a closed door meeting and we voted to call you up instead.

because we love the player you are, we love the person you are, we believe you will make an impact beyond your play on the field on this organization and on this team.

man, I felt like I could run through a wall for this man. Right? I'm showing up unconfident, very humble. He just made me feel like I'm King Tut for a week.

And I played great for him every time I played great for him. He ended up sending me down a week later. Didn't matter. I was thrilled. The opposite of that is a leader that doesn't take ownership of their decisions. When I was with the Red Sox in 2012, Bobby Valentine was the manager and he pulls me aside. says, Hey, I think you're our best catcher, but I don't get a vote.

I think you're the best option. it was up to me, you'd be our guy, but I gotta send you down a trip.

From the human side, I can see why he would want to not take responsibility for that decision, right? He's trying to make me feel some type of way. He's trying to not take ownership of the negativity. But in that, he left room for questions. He left lack of ownership. And in that regard, to me, he's my least favorite manager that I ever played.

Because what player wants to hear like, I'm the best one, but get out of here. What player wants to hear, you're the tip of the spear, but you're not taking ownership for this decision.

So as a leader, you can have the hard conversation in a positive way, as long as you own it. And as long as you understand the human that you're having the conversation with.

Sean Patton (16:12)
Those are fans and such good leadership examples. And I love how to your point, you know, that last one, it seems counterintuitive, right? It seems, it's like, if you're, and I think it's so important, man, I want to highlight this because if you're a new leader, right? If you're new in a position, it might seem to you because you got to your position a lot of times, right? And first line manager, second line, because people liked you, like you were competent and

people will like you. I, Ryan's a good guy. Yeah. I think you give him a shot of director or whatever. Right. And you get there and then, but then you get to a certain point where, you rely on that. So I'm sure in their minds, like, well, that way they still like me. Like he likes me cause he thinks I like him, but that made you, you know, respect him less. It made him less of a leader in your eyes. And the person who, who owned it and said, you know, Hey, you're not one of the top 30 best guys in the world right now. You know, and.

but doesn't mean you can't be tomorrow. And they were just straight up with you. And I see this, I'm interested in your perspective with some of the clients you've worked with or with some of the teams, because I know you're currently a coach, scout, batting, all that stuff, right? You still work in the majors. But I see this happen with a lot of clients I work with where they've set a culture or they think, because it's Gen Z or whatever excuse they get, that they can't be direct.

or they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or whatever. like, and that, and I, just nine times out of 10, if not 10, it does more damage than just setting the culture on this team. We're direct with you. It's not personal. We're trying to solve a problem. trying to solve this greater mission, right? It's not about you or me. It's about this greater mission. And the best way to do that is for me to speak, not be cruel, but be direct. And so many people are scared of that confrontation and it limits their ability to

lead a culture and organization.

Ryan Lavarnway (18:01)
Two things at once, right? Same time again. You can be kind and firm. You can be honest without being cruel. You can be transparent without telling them something they don't need to know.

Sean Patton (18:10)
Can you expand on transparent without telling them something they don't need to know?

Ryan Lavarnway (18:13)
Yeah, again, I'll tell you the baseball example, right? Like as a player, I was minor league hitter of the year three years in a row for the Red Sox. In my mind, I was like, I am literally doing everything I can control. I am the best hitter here. And I also know David Ortiz, Hall of Famer, and Jason Veritek, Red Sox Hall of Famer, are blocking my path. So in my mind, I'm like, I'm doing everything I can control.

What else do I have to do? And at 23 years old, the worst thing someone told me was, keep doing what you're doing. Because I couldn't take yes for an answer. I wanted you to give me something to work on. I'm the guy that's gonna go figure it out. If I need to do more, tell me to do more. If I need to work on leadership, if I need to work on my receiving, tell me to do more. Because that's who I was, right? And people are different. Some people might love, keep doing what you're doing. You're doing a great job.

But I didn't have the relationship or the maturity to communicate what I needed yet, because I was 23, 24. So as a coach, I try to understand what is it that you need to land this plan and circle back to your question of how can you be transparent without telling them all the things? We had organizational meetings this week with the Chicago Cubs. We were talking about one of our right-handed pitchers

He can throw 100 miles per hour for 90 pitches in a row. He doesn't tire out like a normal human being you think would, right? And he has more value to the organization as a starter, right? Starters are hard to come by, especially starters that throw 100 for that long. But he sees I could pitch in the big leagues tomorrow if I can throw 103 for 20 pitches as a reliever.

So he sees the quick path to some success, whereas the organization wants him to take a slightly longer path to a way bigger success. That being said, we have five starters. So there's someone blocking that route that makes him more valuable, so it's maybe a year out versus tomorrow he could replace the reliever. So it's all about how do we show him there's more success over here.

It might take a while. We can't make any promises because you don't know what's going to happen in the next year. He might tear his elbow. We might trade for, you know, one of these guys that just signed for 700 million. We don't know the future, but we can show him the potential and the value and make it transparent without making promises or without saying like, we're planning to trade so and so in two weeks because he can't know that yet.

Sean Patton (20:42)
Yeah, that is, you know, it's funny because that's, obviously in athletics, professional sports example, but there's so many aspects of, of business and I see leaders struggle with where, you know, we're, we're, we're looking at acquiring this company. So it's going to be other opportunities or, know, there we're, we're getting ready to,

you know, litigation on this thing or whatever, like whatever else, right? There's like always competitive. We're going to launch this product line. We can't talk about, know, there's always other things going on, but still having that leadership wherewithal, like how do we frame things in a way that we're looking out best for the individual and the organization? And that was a really cool example. And I think it's also important that, you know, you brought up, needed

what I would describe as like you needed a mission, like a highly competitive person. Like you needed something to work on. Don't be, you know, instead of saying, yeah, you're doing great to stay there. And again, it goes back to like a lot of leaders would see that as like, I'm being nice. you're how many performance reviews or wherever else somebody gets like doing great. Awesome. And like, you just told that to, you know, 19 of 20 people. And it's one, the people who are okay with that are not the people you want on your team.

Those aren't high performers. Those aren't a players like a players. Like I want something to work on. Like I need a mission to strive for. And if I had to pull this out to a, a, a big like meta human example, you know, my book's called a warrior's mindset. And I say that because I just believe that, I define a warrior as someone who fights for a noble cause greater than themselves.

And I believe we're all the descendants of warriors and conquerors and hunters and successful civilizations. Like if you were too scared, if you were just like, it's good enough. I'm going to stay here in my cave. Like you didn't procreate. Like you didn't make more humans, right? Cause you got conquered by someone who like wanted to push, you wanted to explore. And, and I just think there's like a natural human element to that. And our, especially in this country, like our quality of life.

has made it very easy and very comfortable to not have a mission, to just go through the motions and to pull it back to your point, that may be what feels good in the moment, but that's not going to lead to long-term success or even long-term fulfillment as a human being. So how do we make a mission for ourselves and how do we give that to other people?

so they can be inspired to keep pushing no matter if they are the batting leader, the hit champion, or batting leader for the whole league. There's still something to work on. People need a mission.

Ryan Lavarnway (23:31)
I think we gotta be careful about saying that everybody's the same. Some people love status quo, and that's okay for them. Some people need you're doing great. Some people need the pat on the back. That wasn't me. Some people will take yes for an answer. And the counter argument is that I'm always tinkering, I'm always changing, and maybe at a certain point it's good enough. Perfect is the enemy of good. I think it's important as a leader to...

build that relationship with people to know like, Sean and Ryan need a mission. Like I can keep them going. But these two over here, they need the like, it's going good. Don't change. So I think it's important to build a relationship when you can. And I think the professional sports world is so cutthroat that you're here today gone tomorrow. But most companies, you're not going to trade out your people for the next best thing every year.

Most companies, people are there for two, three, four, five, 20 years. So how are you building those people to be the best for them? Because you want them to be their best so that the company can be the best.

Sean Patton (24:33)
That, that's a very good counterpoint because I was actually just added dinner. I have a small group of, entrepreneurs, one of them is a high level executive, but I, and a friend of mine put it together. We have dinner and we call it like challenging connect dinners. We challenge each other and connect, once a month. It's awesome. And one of the guys has a tech startup, a healthcare tech startup, and it's doing really well. It's in early stages, but it's doing very well. And he brought up a point where he's like, I'm hiring all these.

you know, young hungry, a players, right? And, he's like, but one of my original, like three hires is this guy who has this very specific skill and he's, he's older, but he's been loyal. He's a B player. Like, but what he does is like very specific. He's got great relationships. He like, it's a value to the company, but the rest of the company is these like, you know, MIT grad, like Harvard, like go.

Like get shit done, you know, in this like cutthroat IT world. And he's like, I'm worried that it's going to like bring this up. And we had, it's funny. We had a whole discussion and around it. And to your point, which I think is really valid, there are the people in the company where it's just like, this one person does this thing and like, they're not looking to be the next CEO. They're just looking to be really good at this one thing and they want to go home and they want to make sure they're home at

you know, 430 so they can make the kids ball game at five and like, that's all that matters. And like, it kind of like leave them kind of leave them alone and support them. And as long as they're performing their role, that's fine. Not everyone you're, you're right. It's like driving and striving and wants to, you know, have that in their life or maybe they do, but it's not in the work environment.

Ryan Lavarnway (26:14)
And you know what, not only is that okay, you actually need those players. You need, and I think even calling them B and C players is insulting in a way, right? Like you need the people that are not climbers. Because if everyone's trying to climb, they're going to leave to climb somewhere else. Cause not everybody can be in the C-suite. You need your second baseman to play his role. You need the guy that's going to steal bases and hit behind the runner. If all you have is home run hitters, you're going to strike out too much, right? Like.

The sports analogy is so perfect because you need people to play their role, play your position. You can't have nine All Stars on the field at all time. And again, I don't want to call them B players. You need people to play their role.

Sean Patton (26:53)
The perfect example of that in the sports world that I see, and maybe, of course you see it to the baseball ends, mean, more than anything I'm assuming, but I think you see that a lot with like basketball teams, right? Like in the NBA, it's like, there's only five of them. And so it's like, they'll put together the dream team. And it's like these three superstars and their performance actually goes down because they're all trying to be the guy, right? They're all trying to be the person as opposed to like finding the puzzle pieces that fit best.

for the whole team to function and have its greatest success.

Ryan Lavarnway (27:26)
And you need people that see the world differently. If we're always trying to strive and climb, you're not covering the safe and secure side. You're not covering the meaning and life side. You're not covering the are we correct and accurate side. So you need people that see the world differently.

Sean Patton (27:41)
So powerful. You know, when you were on these different sport, you know, these different teams and now as you coach others, what are your thoughts on how to be a quality peer leader? Not just, you know, when you're have a formal authority or you're the team captain or you're the gym manager or whatever, but like you're a teammate, but how do you lead, still be a leader and a positive influence among your peers?

Ryan Lavarnway (28:07)
Yeah, I think what you said right at the end of that question is a positive influence. And the other side of that is being authentic to yourself. Early in my career, I wanted to be Jason Veritek so bad. And Jason Veritek is the kind of guy where I was warned before the first time I met him that I was going to think he wanted to eat my face off. Okay, this man was like straight to the point, serious, how can you help?

yada yada yada, like straight edge, very professional, clean cut, right? That's not me, you know me a little bit. Like I'm a jokester, I like to have fun, I'm very jovial. I like dad jokes, right? So when I tried to be Jason, it came off as fake. Even though like I was really leaning into it, I meant it, but it wasn't me. So you need somebody that can keep it light.

You also need someone that's gonna keep it serious. You need someone that's straight to the point, and you need someone that's worried about what's happening on the weekend, but still does their job, so that you remember, I got a family at home, that's important too. So I think it's important to understand your unique leadership style. Who are you? Let's bring this to the professional world. Are you a person that knows the numbers? You know the numbers, and you can talk about the numbers?

but you're not so good at relationships, well then the best way to build that team, the way to build leadership is to understand like this person's better at the relationships, let's work together. Let's work towards the common goal because if we all win, I win. It doesn't matter who gets the credit a lot of times. We're rising, we're sinking, or we're floating, we're succeeding together. Most companies don't work on an individualized basis. I know some sales teams do.

But even the sales teams, they got the tip of the spear that's making the sale and they have the guy that they're bringing in that knows the product better than them, that knows the underlying numbers better than them. And if that salesperson doesn't value the people that are on their team that are really helping, you need to value those people and you need to be honest about who you are with them with positive influence.

Sean Patton (30:13)
I'm going to take us on a bit of a side question because I'm more just interested in anything, but tell me about your experience playing in the Olympics.

Ryan Lavarnway (30:24)
What about it?

Sean Patton (30:25)
I guess we'll start off with, why'd you want to do it?

Ryan Lavarnway (30:28)
Why did I wind it? It's the Olympics, bro.

Why was it that one?

Sean Patton (30:29)
Like, you

seen, you seen the parade? looks sweet. Yeah. So, what was the process like to, cause you, you played for team Israel. So I mean, that's also unique in the sense that, you know, you, you weren't like, I'm going to the team USA practice down in Florida and working and all the art, you know, it was like, what was it like to play where the other members of that team where they was, it sounds like it's probably an international.

The people on the team probably lived or played all over the globe, but they had to come together to play for the Olympics. imagine that was a unique experience as a team.

Ryan Lavarnway (31:07)
Yeah,

well, I mean, think about the modern world we live in. You and I have never met in person, but we're friends, right? We talk all the time. That's kind of how team Israel is. We have this group WhatsApp text chat chain. A lot of us don't see each other for years on end. And then we get together and we play baseball and kicks and butt. Right. So, the, the, the crazy thing about the Olympics is that I actually was recruited to play for team USA. And I chose to play for Israel instead because.

Playing for Israel has been a meaningful and life-changing experience for me as far as how I see myself in the world. How I see myself as a Jewish man, that's a separate story. But nobody expected Israel to win. The odds were Japan's supposed to win, they're at plus 150. USA's supposed to come in second, they're at plus 330. Israel was plus 3,000. I've never bet on sports, but just looking at those numbers, it's 10 times worse.

Sean Patton (32:01)
Yeah.

Ryan Lavarnway (32:01)
So we went and we had this collective group mindset of like, we'll show you, you're gonna doubt us, but we're gonna show, we're gonna prove something. So we're climbing the hill. It goes into my whole mindset of everything else of we have something to prove. You don't believe in us, but we believe in us. And you know what? We were this close from winning a medal. One of our best pitchers, Torres Elbow,

in the first inning of the first game or else I firmly believe we come home with the bronze medal.

because we were still that close without him. We took Korea into extra innings. We had a lead on the Dominican in the bottom of the ninth. We win either one of those games, we're in a medal game, just like that. So we had something to prove. We went there. For me, the best part of Olympic Village was the gym.

So when you're in Olympic Village, you have to wear your team issued gear anytime you're outside of your dorm room, right? So you're wearing your team issued colors. There's the flag, there's the name of the country. So you can tell where everyone's from. There's Mexico is green and blue, USA is red, white and blue, Israel was blue and white. The team from Venezuela was wearing yellow, but it was awesome. everyone's wearing this cool gear. You can tell where everyone's from. It's all different.

Sean Patton (32:47)
Really?

Ryan Lavarnway (33:12)
The New Zealand team had their black and white, their uniforms were sick. But you're in the gym and you're watching these people that are the best in the world at what they do, do the thing that makes them the best at what they do. So like in my field division, know, baseball players are a different breed. I got the eight pound shoulder weight. I'm doing these rotator cuff exercises, right? I feel like a complete

non-athlete amongst the best in the world. Baseball players, we've got our little purple band. We're working on our shoulders, right? But in my field division, I see the New Zealand power lifters warming up with 7,000 pounds, right over there. And then I got the France basketball team warming up on the rowing machine. And the Venezuelan gymnastics team doing handstands over here and working on their balance. And the soccer team from Mexico

over there warming up with medicine balls and just all the different athletes from different sports that I know very little about doing the thing that makes them the best in the world. To me that was the coolest part.

Sean Patton (34:15)
that is that that sounds amazing. And that's something that I think like you from an outsider looking in would never would never think that that was that was the thing, you know? Well, I'm going to continue, I guess on maybe it's not a set. Maybe it's our main quest now of sort of touching on different aspects of your life and pulling out lessons. I've I've got to be a first time father here in two in two months.

What are leadership lessons, the main leadership lessons you've pulled from being a father?

Ryan Lavarnway (34:47)
Patience, unconditional love. I'm starting to get to a point now, and you won't get here for a couple years now, but my daughter's two and a half now. And now it's been to a point so far where I gotta do everything for her, right? Like she can't do anything. And now at two and a half, I'm starting to get to the point where I gotta let her do stuff on her own, and it's gonna be better for her.

Even if it takes 10 times longer, it's messier, it's not done as well, it's gonna be better for her. So I think for you at different points, number one, do enjoy it. Being a dad is the best thing that's ever happened to me. I've wanted to be a dad since I was a kid. I love kids. Every kid I've ever met loves me back. We just have a connection. I love kids. So that's probably why I wrote my kids book. But there's different phases and every phase has been my favorite when it comes.

Because when they're first born, they don't know you exist, right? They're a blob. You don't know what to do with them. They can't see you, they don't react to you, they just fulfill their needs. But at the time, that's all you know and it's great. And then they start to notice that you're there. And they react and they smile. And then they start to crawl. And then they start to walk and then they start to talk and just enjoy it. Enjoy every phase because it's the best thing that I've ever done.

Sean Patton (36:02)
Tell me about your kids book you wrote.

Ryan Lavarnway (36:04)
Baseball and belonging. I have one right here. I always have one on my desk. It's kind of my story going through baseball and finding my Judaism through playing for team Israel. It's been great. It's got a great response from people that have read it. I've got really beautiful letters in the mail of people, especially people that feel like they're half and half of something. Like I was half Christian or half Catholic and half Jewish. But people are, you know, they're like, I'm half.

Mexican, I'm half whatever. It's about like choosing and that you get to decide. So for me, like I've chosen Judaism even though I was half. And when I finally dove in, I got the benefits. But when I tried to play both fields, when I tried to keep a toe in each pool, you know, you're not really a part of anything. And I feel like if you want to be a part of something, you got to make the choice to be a part of something.

Sean Patton (36:58)
That makes sense, right? Cause we're naturally, you know, designed evolutionary, whatever, historically tribal creatures, right? So we just, need, I think that that is a human need to feel a part of a tribe and to be, I think it's so important to be intentional with choosing to your point, mentioned choosing a tribe and,

and choosing the right people to be a part of your team and who you surround yourself with. Because that is, you know, was the Harvard happiness study, right? 80 years later and like, what makes people happy or fulfilled in life. the one, the only sort of one constant among every socioeconomic class, gender, whatever was the quality of your close relationships. And so I think that that interconnectedness

and choosing the tribe is that's a really powerful, a powerful lesson for us. And I think that's also why one reason I'm so passionate and I know you are too about leadership, about culture, because we can create such a positive tribe that.

changes and enhances people's life through doing meaningful work. And, and I think that, you know, that's what drive one of the drivers, you know, for me as, as we move forward and, know, you've gone through a lot of obviously transitions, you know, throughout your life, talk about, know, the majors and minors and, then especially in the last few years transitioning from being a professional athlete, you know, now speaking and coaching in a major still and working with business clients. And so what

What has changed for you and how you define success for yourself and how do you align your actions to that vision?

Ryan Lavarnway (38:43)
It's been one of my, you know, people say, what do you miss most about baseball? That's the number one thing. And it's, yeah, it's hard because when you're playing sports, especially, again, I keep going back to sports because that was 30 years of my life. It's been more than 75 % of my life I've played baseball. When you wake up in the morning, you win or you lose. The goal is to win the game, right? And sub goals of that, personal performance, secondarily.

Like, I get hits? Did I play good defense? It's defined, right? I either made the plays, I threw the runner out, or I didn't. I made an error. I got hits, I hit a homer, or I struck out. Right, I got out. Life isn't like that, right? Life isn't not as cut and dry and defined. And you get to choose. And that's, again, part of why I think it's so important to set that big picture North Star vision, that goal. Are you working towards your goal? Did you get closer towards your goal?

Is your goal quality time with family? Is your goal setting yourself up financially so that you can do the things you want to do, do the things you need to do? Keep food on the table, keep a roof over your head. There are eight different forms of wellbeing. You have the financial, the career, the social, mental, emotional, physical, health. There's eight different areas that need to be considered to be a completely healthy person.

How many of those goals are you moving towards in a given day? And what are you doing about them? Did you do your five minutes of meditation in the morning? Did you take a cold tub? Not everyone's gonna cold tub. Did you shower today? That could be a win for some people. But the fact is that in life, I feel like I've learned this in my late 30s, is that you get to decide.

Sean Patton (40:25)
I love that because I think it resonates in my community as well on the veteran side. I think that's one of the hardest things about transition. And maybe it's just the hardest part, you know, it's funny in my, in my world, we talk about transition and at least around the veterans, like everyone knows that means transition is a veteran, for you transitioning professional athletes, you know, civilian life or regular life, right? Like same thing. And it goes, and I think that's one of things that people miss or

struggle with is that same thing of like, your mission is very clear. Your role is very clear. And, you know, and in some ways, if we took it to this, to a very extreme point, I've seen people, you know, when I was in the military, it was the time of two or two full blown wars going on and people are spending so much time in combat. And I saw people struggle. Not just not being at war because there's good guys. There's bad guys. There's missions, there's success. Like, you know, it's just like so defined and

And then they come back and that's a little less fuzzy. And then they get out of the military and now it's like, the entire world is gray and you can do anything. And you, and if you didn't, if you haven't spent time kind of defining who you are, what you're trying to do outside of this role you play, you can get really lost. I saw this happen with my, with my mom. she was a school psychologist and then a special education administrator in schools for years. So.

you her life for, you know, decades, right, is defined as I'm an educator working with kids. And then when she retired, she hadn't done the work, like this whole, like, who am I? Because I'm not this person and this is a part of me. It just identified with like that mission so much that you start to lose yourself. And so I think the skill of...

being able to define your own identity, who are your values, what are you trying to do? And do that through each phase of life and re-emerge as a new person is such a life skill and powerful. And the reason that people need to bring in coaches and speakers and thought leaders like yourself to continue to help them develop new ideas and grow and help them define them. Define who are you?

What are you trying to do with your life? Because you only get to go, you know, as far as we know through this thing once.

Well, awesome. Ryan, this is fantastic, man. It's always great to chat with you, my friend. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. If people are trying to we'll put your links and stuff in show notes. But if people are trying to find more about you and your work, what's the best place for them to go?

Ryan Lavarnway (43:05)
Best place is either my website, ryanlavarnway.com, or check out my LinkedIn to stay updated on everything I'm up to. LinkedIn, I'm easy to find, Ryan Lavarnway. There's not too many of us with this name. Got a link to my speaking sizzle reel on my LinkedIn and on my website, and I answer all my own messages. So feel free to reach out. I'm a real person. People are sometimes surprised by that, but just happy to make a positive impact.

Sean Patton (43:33)
That's awesome, Ryan. Thanks so much, brother.

Ryan Lavarnway (43:34)
Appreciate you.