Whole-hearted Leadership - A Fresh Perspective, w/Lantz Howard: Ep66

Most leaders are stuck in a cycle of people-pleasing, overcommitting, and avoiding the hard truths—and it’s killing their impact. In this episode, I sit down with Lantz Howard, executive coach and founder of Champion Hope, to break down what it really takes to lead with confidence, clarity, and conviction. Lantz helps high-achieving leaders escape burnout, develop emotional resilience, and take full ownership of their decisions. If you’re tired of leading from fear, struggling with tough conversations, or feeling stretched too thin, this episode is your wake-up call.

Summary

 In this episode of the No Limits Leadership Podcast, host Sean Patton engages with executive coach Lantz Howard to explore the concept of wholehearted leadership. They discuss the fragmentation many leaders experience in their personal and professional lives, the importance of emotional awareness, and the balance between assertiveness and connection in leadership. Lantz shares personal stories of his journey towards leading with his whole heart and emphasizes the significance of vulnerability and psychological safety in creating effective leadership environments. The conversation also touches on the impact of external influences, such as news media, on emotional capacity and decision-making.

Takeaways

 -Leadership is about managing tasks but leading people.

-Many leaders struggle with emotional fragmentation.

-Vulnerability in leadership fosters connection and trust.

-Emotional awareness is crucial for effective leadership.

-Leaders should not be responsible for others' happiness.

-Creating psychological safety is essential for team dynamics.

-Emotional capacity is more important than emotional intelligence.

-The home environment serves as a critical leadership laboratory.

-Growth in leadership is not a linear process.

-Leaders must learn to listen and ask thoughtful questions.

Chapters

 00:00 Wholehearted Leadership: A New Perspective

03:09 The Journey of Self-Discovery

05:43 Navigating Leadership Challenges

08:35 Emotional Capacity vs. Emotional Intelligence

11:32 Creating Psychological Safety in Leadership

14:30 Vulnerability as a Strength

17:13 Integrating Personal and Professional Growth

20:10 Coaching Culture in Organizations

26:47 The Art of Intentional Listening

29:02 Coaching as an Experiential Learning Process

30:38 Emotional Awareness in Coaching

32:51 Clarifying Intentions in Conversations

34:04 Lessons from Past Relationships

37:22 Navigating Midlife Transitions

39:43 Empowerment through Coaching

41:43 The Impact of Media on Emotional Well-being

Lantz’s Links

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lantzhoward/

https://www.lantzhoward.com/

Transcript

Sean Patton (00:17)
Welcome to the No Limits Leadership Podcast. am your host, Sean Patton, and I'm very excited to be here with Lantz Howard, executive coach, has a very unique perspective, works primarily with men, but I think that all leaders are gonna get a lot out of this conversation. And we met through some mutual coach friends and I checked your stuff out and I was like, man, we gotta get Lantz on here and chat. thanks for being here.

Lantz Howard (00:44)
Man, Sean, I'm honored to be here and serve those listening. Thank you.

Sean Patton (00:48)
So let's just hop right into it. my big focus a lot of times when I go into companies is sort of separating management versus leadership. And one of the ways that I like to frame that is, know, we manage the position, we're managing tasks, we're managing outcomes, but we're leading the person, right? Like leadership is a uniquely human construct and you have this, you know, your whole business is really been around whole hearted leadership. So not just leading the other whole person, but

self leadership from a whole person perspective. Can you kind of tell everyone about what your perspective is there?

Lantz Howard (01:21)
Sure. I don't know about you, Sean, but some mornings, even similar to today, you think things are going to go one way. But even trying to get this podcast done, I've had to make about four different adjustments this morning. And that leaves me feeling a little bit fragmented. Some people would call it anxiety. But right, you take that into a more macro level or even a global

level of like our world is a broken and hurting world. and the reality is, is most of us, are in a relationship and leadership intimacy crisis. meaning that I think we're all trying to do our best to show up with our whole heart each day. but man, things are pulling at us in a million different ways, whether it's our marriage, our kids, our occupation.

And even trying to figure out how do I have some hobbies and friends in the midst of that? And so it leaves us feeling Going back to what I said leaves us feeling fragmented of like, how do I really show up as a whole person? Day in and day out and so that's really the posture of my own story and the posture that I try to serve people Is that like if you can show up wholehearted? I think there's gonna be a lot more fruit that comes from that effort

Sean Patton (02:46)
How, when you know, mentioned your story, how did you first notice, you know, what were those symptoms to help you come to that realization that you weren't showing up as your whole self or, know, there were parts of your life that you were not showing up as your whole person. Like what was that experience? Like what were those early indicators that that was happening?

Lantz Howard (03:09)
One, one story, cause I think I'm in process of becoming, I don't know if I've arrived, but one in particular story comes to mind years ago. I had jumped out of my executive leadership role and God led us on a wilderness journey that I thought like, here we go. This thing is going to be amazing. And we're going to climb to the top of the mountain and see the view. It's going to be wonderful. Right. But it turned into just,

very, very, very difficult season. And so one moment that I realized like I was fragmented as a person was when my wife and I were doing a six hour Enneagram audio version, driving to West Texas and then back home, to North Dallas. my wife had discovered her number at the end of this six hour audio version of this Enneagram teaching. And I look over and there's

tears streaming down her face because we're in the middle of a very difficult season. And in that moment, I realized, man, this is the first time that I've actually seen my wife. It's easy to feel like you're connecting until that other person breaks and they're vulnerable in a way that's like, man, somebody actually sees me because you haven't been seeing me.

meaning that like everything's going be all right. It's going to turn out great. Like, right. But all she was really asking for all along the way is like, what is the structure? What is the plan and how are we going to get there? and my posture was like, I don't know, we're going to just take this one day at a time. And so I realized in that season, I hadn't been leading with my whole heart because she was asking for one thing and I was delivering something completely.

opposite of what she actually needed. this is true in any environment, whether it's our marriage or the work environment. It's like, how many times is my ego in the way and I'm going full steam ahead, leaving people behind. But the reality is like, nobody's actually following me. So I think that's what we have to be aware of is that like, okay, am I pushing ahead or am I actually bringing other people along?

Sean Patton (05:27)
And in your mind, did you feel like you guys were connected and communicating and open and on the same page? in your mind, was that a realization that that wasn't occurring? Or was that a new realization?

Lantz Howard (05:43)
Yeah, from the outside in, mean, we were, we were connected, great marriage, like, right. Things were, were good. but I think emotionally, we were just swimming in the shallow end, like, because it was just a really, really hard season. like survival season check is in the mail type of story season. and so when you're living out of that.

that lizard brain of survival when you're living out of that anxious and fragmented pieces of yourself. Unfortunately, it leaves you in a position not to make long-term decisions in a reasonable way because you're just making daily decisions. Right. So I've really learned and try to position myself since then is like, okay, what is it that I really want? Like a decade from now? I'm like, how do I go back and begin to live in the day based on

that preferred vision, because going back to the Enneagram, I'm an Enneagram nine and in general, they have a great way of making other people shine, and making their visions and dreams come to life. but we have a very difficult way of speaking up for my desires, wants and needs. and, and so that left me a void of a person, because I've realized that I've had to grow up and learn what assertive

communication looks like to go after what I want, instead of leading in a democracy type of way, consensus type of way. And there's, there's times for that. but also know that, that people value my voice and they want to know my voice. And so I've had to learn to speak up, because people are looking for a leader, not necessarily just somebody to, keep the team together.

Kumbaya as my wife would say at the table, you

Sean Patton (07:37)
Yeah, and it is, I mean, I feel like a lot of businesses that I see and work with, there's a lot of leaders I think that struggle with, especially nowadays. It's almost this pendulum of maybe, you know, a few decades ago, the thought that a great boss or great leader was the, let's go push, maybe even like yell or be super aggressive or like, all, you know, it's all about me, we're all gonna do this and be like,

and like almost too much, right? Like, and almost turn people off and not listen. And then it's like, no, we need to, now it's just pendulum swing back where a lot of people are like, well, I don't want to be like that, right? And so I'm going to go the other way. And then they end up in, you know, meeting after meeting talking about, what does that, what do you think? What do you think? And like, everyone's like, well, someone just make a decision and like go.

I don't know if there's a lot of, I know there's not a lot of training out there for people to find that balance that you're talking about. know, like how, when you work with clients and leaders, how do you help them find that balance between, you know, as we would say in the military, when in charge, take charge, along with, you know, getting people on board, getting buy-in and eliciting, you know, information and feedback to make the best decision.

Lantz Howard (09:02)
think if what I'm hearing you ask is this idea of like, how do you allow somebody to be assertive and aggressive and lead? I guess what's coming to mind is that you have to be willing to tolerate a level of discomfort of staying connected in a relationship and being seen as possibly wrong.

and still making a decision to move forward. So what I mean is that in my role serving executive leaders, the number one or two person oftentimes is that they are extremely good at people pleasing, right? Because there's this subconscious narrative playing out for a lot of high performing leaders that we're trying to prove someone wrong from our past history and our past story, whether it's our mom, whether it's our dad, whether it's her brother.

And so that leaves us in a very weak position because the next thing you know, we actually climb the ranks by people pleasing, not actual leadership. so the higher you get in different rooms you get in, the next thing you know, you're called upon to be a leader, not just a people pleaser and that toleration of knowing how to hold onto relationships and still making a courageous decision.

is really left for very, very few leaders. Because, because it hurts like, right? It hurts to see a team member not quote unquote like us, but it would be much better to be respected, say the hard things, say the truthful things filled with grace in a way that it's like, Hey, you know what? I'm trying to stay emotionally calm as I can. I'm going to stay connected in this relationship, but I'm also going to make a courageous decision.

based on our preferred future. And it's okay if you disagree with it. But this is what we have to do right now based on our current circumstances.

Sean Patton (11:05)
Yeah, I noticed when I was looking at your content, reading more about you in preparation for this, that you had a line where you said, I couldn't keep everyone happy, that you were struggling. It makes sense now you mentioned your Enneagram 9. So I'm like, okay, I started coming together now. But I think as you mentioned, a lot of leaders struggle with that. but is it our responsibility to make other people happy?

Is it even possible for us to be responsible for somebody else's happiness?

Lantz Howard (11:32)
No,

absolutely not. mean, the beauty of leadership, think between marriage and raising kids is the best ecosystem that we can grow up as leaders. If we're willing to actually know what's happening, right? Because your, your home environment is the greatest leadership environment and it's going to test your sense of resolve and your ability to move a team from point A to point B. And so what I mean by that is like,

I have a 14 year old daughter who probably is modeling some of my tendencies. Firstborn, right? Trying to figure out like how do I navigate making mom and dad happy? But something that we say oftentimes in our home is you're not responsible for your friend's emotions.

And that, and that is super difficult. Like you're just responsible for your emotions. Your emotions are not right or wrong. and your emotions can't control you either. You have to be aware of it. Say, you know what? I feel disconnected from you, but what I'm going to choose to do instead of withdrawing from this awkward conversation, the hard conversation is believe the best about you and believe the best about our team and work through the conflict that we need to currently, work through. so.

I think as team members, we have to be emotionally aware is really what this comes down to. And I think that's my approach to just this idea of wholehearted leadership is that most leaders in general have a very low ceiling when it comes to emotional capacity or what some people would call emotional intelligence. Right. So we're really good at like anger. We're really good at, you know, probably some boardrooms, you know, dropping the F bomb and

storming out the door. but, but really like, how do you be the calmest person in the room and still continue to lead people in my process? I truly believe that one of the best ways that leaders can do that is learn what it means to be a coaching leader, what it means to be a thoughtful leader that asks questions. sometimes they're directive questions, but sometimes they're just questions that, bring out other people's beliefs, values, and motives, you know,

Sean Patton (13:47)
Yeah. You know, and I, I know you mentioned, yeah, you use the term emotional capacity and you said, you know, other people might say emotional intelligence. Why do you use the term emotional capacity instead of emotional intelligence? Are they different concepts to you or

Lantz Howard (14:01)
Man, I think I may be selling myself short. I don't think men want to talk about emotions. And let's be honest, I think when we talk about emotional intelligence, you know, in whatever EQ test you want to take out there, it's like, what is emotional intelligence? Like, how do you know when somebody's emotionally intelligent? Like, I don't, I don't know. Like right. I think we're all in the process of maturations and growing and becoming.

But I think the more that you're able to sit in your own discomfort and your own silence and your own solitude, grows your emotional capacity. If that makes sense. So, so like, right, we can take an emotional intelligence, test or assessment, whatever it may be. and that's just data. Like we don't need more data. People actually need to figure out how to get in touch on a heart level with one another.

that makes you feel seen and makes me feel seen. It makes me us feel like we actually belong in this environment together. And that's, that's the real hard work of leadership because if I go back to, know, that's the season that led us into our hard season, essentially I didn't know it at the time. I thought I was making a move out of faith and I think the move was out of faith, but underneath the surface, I was, I was really afraid. there was this,

subconscious story now that I'm aware of, like I was living in a sense of fear, that I was the next person on the chopping chopping block. But the reality is because I was living in a sense of fear and I couldn't have the courageous conversation. and I lived out of a posture of passive aggressiveness. it, I self sabotaged the whole fear scenario anyway. Right. and so I think.

Some of it's just like, okay, what, what is actually going on? Right? We all have secret fears that we're wrestling with. We all have secret dreams that we're wrestling with. And the more that we can see each other on that human level, beyond any EQ tests, I think our organizations and our homes will fly much better off.

Sean Patton (16:16)
Yeah. And when I'm here, you you talking about is the terms that I'm that kind of mind when you mentioned that are creating basically, you know, this is a buzz term, but psychological safety and also an environment for like vulnerability. And so as leaders, we want to do that. We want to connect human to human, but we're not sure how. So when you coach the executives to create that environment or have that conversation and connect, how do you coach them to approach that?

Lantz Howard (16:43)
Perfect question and a great time to ask this. So I have a new leader in a well-known national organization. He's just transferred into a new store as their owner. And we work through this idea of like, everybody's perception of you is the leader, is the quote unquote boss. And we are working through like, how do you set up the culture that you actually want?

through a sense of vulnerability and authenticity. And so actually last week in one of our coaching conversations, we talked through like, your stories actually need to be stories of failure that they hear and how God has redeemed those stories, whether they're a parenting story or a workplace story, because the more that people see you in your moment of weakness, your moment of darkness, all of a sudden they're able to connect to you.

It's really hard to connect with people who are on top of the mountain. But when you lead from this place of like, hey, yes, I am the leader. We are going in this vision. We are going in this direction. But let me tell you about a time that I really screwed it up with my wife. Let me tell you about a time that I really screwed it up when I fired this team member. And then three months later, I realized I shouldn't have fired him. I fired the wrong person.

I think the more that we share those stories, it makes us human. And I think too often there's this false perception that leaders know it all. And so I think that's what we're trying to really dismantle is not being the know it all or myself, the self-righteous eldest brother that stays at home, right? And doesn't know the goodness of God. And so I think that's really what it's trying to come down to is like, how do you...

Walk with a position of humility and strength at the same time.

Sean Patton (18:43)
Although you said, you know, humility and strength because...

there is strength in vulnerability, right? And that it's, as you know, it's way harder to admit those mistakes and be vulnerable. like that, it takes more courage than trying to present the perfect facade, the infallible person. And I know I had the same thing early in my career, my first business.

And I went through bankruptcy, lost my money, I other people's money. I had to start over. And as I started putting more content out and talking about leadership, my business coach mentioned, he's like, well, I know you should bring up the fact that you had a failed business and you started over. And it was scary. I was like, I don't know if I want to share. Then they're not going to want to work with me. They're not going to trust me. And to your point, the complete opposite was true.

As soon as I said, you know, especially around other entrepreneur, business owners, your executives, as soon as you say, had my bankruptcy, they all just like, yeah, we've been there. You know, like everyone else is like, you got, you did it too. Like, you know, it's just almost this, and, and, and he did see those walls come down. And so I love the fact you're, you're bringing up the importance of leading by example. And when you're vulnerable, giving that gives permission to everyone else to be vulnerable with you as well.

Lantz Howard (19:51)
up.

Sure. think one of the things that, that we, as, as a culture struggling with, especially public facing leaders is that call it a pretentious environment, call it a perfectionist environment. is that that we're off walking around with a sense of like, I've got to keep it all together and it all rest upon me, right? whether at home or at work again, but the reality is like life is not.

Not perfect, right? Going back to the beginning part of our conversation, the more that we can realize like, life is difficult and all of us are doing the best we can probably and give people the benefit of the doubt. Like, I think it creates going back to what you said, I think it creates a level of safety and a level of trust. Like when we don't feel like we have to show up perfect in an organizational environment that we can just show up and figure out like, okay, what

What does organizational health look like today and how can I best serve you as being a part of the team member?

Sean Patton (21:08)
Yeah, it's totally true. And as you work and talk with leaders and help them create those environments at work and in their organizations.

How do you you mentioned before that about them when they're at home and having that be sort of like the ultimate leadership, laboratory or opportunity. So how are those two things connected? And do you say, you know, if you have a leader who's maybe leading from fear and leading from scarcity, is it okay, let's make sure we fix you. Then then we'll work on home. They'll work on business. Is it let's work with business and then reflect back to you. Like what's the problem? Where do you start? You know, in your mind.

to help that leader start to create the right environment for themselves and others.

Lantz Howard (21:56)
Well, I start where they want to start. I had a guy, a guy reached out yesterday, cause adult learning theory shows that you are going to help people grow at where they want to currently grow. Right. And so, this part owner of a company reached out yesterday. like, Hey, I want you to serve me and my team for all of 2025. and we talked through all the, all the buckets, right? Cause I don't think there's.

a place that you start like right growth is not linear. Oftentimes just the way that I market my own pain points from a business perspective, guys often come to me because of their marriage, right? As business owners who are disconnected from their marriage. But the reality is that we'll work on that for one or two conversations.

And the next thing you know, the next three conversations are about the team meeting and some feedback forums that they're trying to work on to assess the health of their team as we close out the end of 2024. And so it really becomes this integrated approach versus this linear aspect that I, that I take, or some, some people take in terms of executive coaching. yeah, it'd be great to say, Hey, here's a, here's a two year playbook. And if you do the mission vision first, and if you do the values and then.

We're going to get to component three and everything's going to be humming. But I truly believe, and this comes from Edwin Freeman and some of his work, that all the decisions that we make as leaders are emotion based decisions. And so the more that we can wrestle with that reality and the more that we can understand, like all the emotions that are at play in these decisions, the better that growth actually happens. And so to go back to your question, I don't.

think growth is linear. So I start where that person is willing to start, which is complicated from a business perspective, because I think it would be easier to give a guy a two-year playbook, there's lot of safety and structure in giving somebody a two-year playbook. I mean, small guys have been with them for two or three years, right? Because I know that we're growing them as an entire person, not just one little facet of their business. And so if they want,

Sean Patton (23:59)
Yep.

Lantz Howard (24:15)
a scalpel for their business, right? If they want somebody to work on the website or work on something on the backend of the excels and data is like, sure, go get that person, go hire that person, but I'm not that person.

Sean Patton (24:28)
Yeah, I think that's the art and science and the balance, what I've seen in terms of coaching as well, right? Like it is, it would be so much easier and it's tempting sometimes. And sometimes I've had clients, that's what they want, right? They're like, where's the workbook? Where's step one? Where's step two? And it's like, you know, it's like, every coaching engagement is a custom, it's a custom thing because that person is a, you know, a unique.

individual. And like I said, so it's a little bit of art and science, which, you know, made me think about, cause I'm a huge proponent as well, that one of the keys is bringing and training leaders on coaching and developing others. And I think we, in a lot of ways, you know, a judge, great leaders on the leaders they create. And I think developing other humans is a key component and almost a definition of leadership. So

You know, we're professional coaches. We've had training and years of experience and how to do this. But when you want to help a leader start to bring some aspects of coaching and development into their organization, like how do we help the leaders, how do we help leaders bring coaching and a coaching friendly environment or culture into the company?

Lantz Howard (25:50)
think some of my greatest opportunities for that have been with my guys that I've actually served for a while. Meaning that once they know what coaching is and I'm thoughtful strategic questions that bring out their own level of growth, their own level of awareness, they're like, I've been a know-it-all leader or a transactional leader. I've been the person that is command and obeyed leader, right?

And so the more that I'm actually with somebody that they start to hunger for implementing coaching inside the organization. and so that's why, you know, next year is going to be a phenomenal year. Just for me, from a personal perspective and business coaching is that some of these guys are like, Hey, I'm ready to start training our team on this art of coaching. but that goes back to the capacity to be a wholehearted leader.

is your willingness to like serve the person in front of you. Listen in such an intentional way that you can ask a question after they're done talking. Cause I don't know about you Sean. mean like in general, like I don't walk away from hardly any conversations that somebody's like, Hey Lantz, really? Like tell me more about that. Huh? That must've felt weird or awkward for you. What was that about? Like right people.

people don't know how to serve other people just with questions. In fact, I have to be super aware that I don't get frustrated in relationships. My wife and I will walk away from conversations like, did that person ask you any questions at all? Like, no, like, like, like people as you're talking are only thinking about themselves in as much as what they want to interject and possibly even one up you and your story. But I think

If we can just be human with each other and serve people out of a posture of questions, then, it goes back to fruitfulness. But I would say the caveat with that was Sean is that I have to be aware of making myself known and seen in a conversational style. I'm like, this reminds me of a time that I was hurt and disappointed too. And then, and then briefly interject a story that shows a little bit of empathy.

based on whatever that person's saying. It can't be just question, question, question, right? But I think I'm learning in this season of like, have to be aware of just connecting nuances of my story with them. That's also still serving the greater good of that overall conversation.

Sean Patton (28:33)
I love that I do think some of the best, I think some of the best times that I've developed as a coach have been during trainings or working with other coaches or listening to other coaching sessions, right? it's, I think it's a very hard skill to kind of went before like here's step one of coaching, do this, then ask this, then do that. It's like, it's so much better to almost like from a meta.

a meta learning experience where you're like watching it or being a part of it happening. And then you, you almost start to understand it experientially as opposed to just like intellectually.

Lantz Howard (29:15)
That

totally, totally. Well, it's funny you say that from a training perspective and even going back to whoever's listening, that's trying to figure out how to do coach training. My like, right. I'm at PCC level with international coaching federation. But when I started some of the coaching, I thought it was a technical skill. And, and when I got my first feedback from some of my recordings, they're like, it's just void of like emotion.

And I was like, well, some of the training just made it seem like we weren't supposed to pay attention to emotions. And they're like, well, that's, that's higher level coaching. Like right. You're learning, learning the fundamentals right now. which goes back just to my, my training in marriage and family therapy that I was kind of relieved the father that I've got into coaching that that coaching the whole person is really a beautiful thing because you're not coaching the problem. And I know you've heard that and other people have heard that is that you're, you're not.

trying to fix their problem. You're actually helping them become aware of what does this say about you? Like what's the real struggle for you right now based on what you just said? Right, so you're always trying to bring the question back to them in a way of like, okay, what is this really about? You're talking about Katie and being pissed off at her, but what does that say about you?

So, mean, and then they may even like, right, if we're in a coaching conversation right now, I'd be like, well, Sean, what was that noise about? Like, what was that inside about?

Sean Patton (30:45)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a notice that cause it is. Well, and I was, just reflecting back to, know, my ICF, training and, and the power of those questions and the power of being present and sitting with that person and ignoring, you know, like that second channel communication, like you were talking about, right? trying to formulate the response.

before they're even done and then you're not really listening. And I think that to me, that is a skill I think has to be constantly honed, at least for me, it's something I have to constantly work on and catch myself and is a powerful tool or realization to bring forward to someone to help them be a better coach is just almost like meditation allows you to

be more mindful and aware of how your mind and your thoughts and emotions are taking you in a direction unintentionally, the same way that being intentional with coaching and listening and recognizing like, I'm thinking about the next thing I'm gonna say, or I'm thinking about whatever else, why this person's talking. Like I'm not actually listening to you wholeheartedly. think that right there is like, almost the, that's such a critical and powerful aspect because even if you're not,

Lantz Howard (31:59)
Huh.

Sean Patton (32:10)
trying to coach, I think leaders listening, leaders listening is another powerful skill that sort of separates managing from leading, if you will.

Lantz Howard (32:24)
Yeah, 100%, 100%. Well, Sean, as you're sharing, I think sometimes it's just important to say, what is this conversation right now? I'll do that with the guys that I've been with for a long time. They're like, hey, I want some quick advice. Let's just work through this. I actually just want to hear all of your thoughts. And even in the context of our home and our marriages, it's important to be like, what is this conversation right now? Are you wanting me to you to resolve something?

Or are you just wanting me to sit here and listen? And just putting that container and that structure on, on trying to understand how you can best listen and serve that person in front of you.

Sean Patton (33:01)
probably my most powerful clarifying question in my marriage has been that exact one. Like, okay, here's what do you want from me right now? Cause I wanna be, it's like, are you wanting to solve, you want my input on this or you want me to like just listen in and be there for you and support you? like I'm fine with either, but man, especially as men, we immediately go to start solving problems and fixing things.

Lantz Howard (33:13)
Ha

Sean Patton (33:30)
and that's not always what people are looking for.

Lantz Howard (33:32)
That's a whole nuanced conversation there too.

Sean Patton (33:35)
Well, let's have it. mean, think that's, yeah, I think that's, that's an important one. mean, I, in total failures, I mean, my, I'm in my second marriage. looking back, I should not have gotten into my first one and subconsciously knew I shouldn't have did it anyway. a lot of factors went into that decision as I reflected on it. One of which was, I just gotten back from a very violent deployment to Afghanistan and my head space was not.

was not right. And so, you know, making big decisions when you're not centered has these long lasting consequences. But then I made a litany of other mistakes as a husband, right? And now as I moved into my current marriage, which we've been married for over five years now, we're expecting our first child baby boy coming in January.

I'm not going to say like everything's perfect, but it's such a, such a different experience because I got to bring some of those lessons, those mistakes and in terms of like listening and, being there, not just, know, especially for me being in the military and just being really busy and focused at work. I took that same like go, go, go solve the problem, move on to the next thing. Shoot, move, communicate into my marriage. And my God, that's not the right approach.

Lantz Howard (34:47)
Yeah

Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you suppose it's been growing up in inside of you, like between the first marriage and the second marriage?

Sean Patton (35:07)
think a lot, well, there was a lot of reflection of how did I get here? Right? Like, cause,

It was also coming up through the military at West Point. It was like, for the most part, win, win, work hard. If things got hard or challenging, the answer is just keep moving. The answer is just go harder, push harder, try harder, do more. And at some point, the mission's gonna end. At some point, the deployment's gonna end. And then...

But in life, unlike in the military, know, there's, there's no upper command saying, okay, time to rest and refit. There's nobody looking over you telling you time to do that. And so I hadn't, I had developed and honed in my ability to push through and ignore physical, emotional, spiritual discomfort to a point.

where I was more than capable of breaking myself. and then when you, in that marriage, I, I didn't, I didn't have the skills. And even in my first business, think that was contributing to it as well. hadn't developed the self awareness and skills and the ability to regulate my performance and my mentality over the long haul. Right.

So just running myself into the ground.

Lantz Howard (36:35)
Great, thanks for sharing that.

Sean Patton (36:36)
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you kind of had maybe a, was it a, you can describe it as a similar experience when you sort of had your realization and that you needed to, that you were heading down the wrong road and that you were, you were pushing, maybe pushing too hard without self-awareness. Or do you see that? I don't know.

Lantz Howard (36:54)
No, yeah,

100 % because one, it's true my story, but two, it's statistically true for men, say 35 to 55. People call it a midlife crisis, but it's really just being emotionally stunted. And you're going to bulldoze through to try to figure out whatever this transitional season is and this identity reformation really is about. And so I think.

Traditionally, we think like, let me go reach out to a counselor to figure out like how to, you know, move forward. Right. but I think the, the nuanced thing about the coaching paradigm and why people are being drawn to it in this particular season is that it is about fostering a more resilient spirit that allows you to go forward. Like, right. It only does so much good for me to be aware of my parents.

divorce and that story and how that story has hurt me and how that story has served me. What's important is how I use that story to move into the future and reframe that story in saying, you know what, like I'm building a new generational tree. Like I'm building a new legacy. But I think even some of this goes back to most people have no idea what they want.

like, right. talk about dreams and visions, but then we get suckered into this idea. Like, I just got to wake up, go to work, come home, you know, do the laundry, feed the kids, and then go to sleep and wake up at noon again. But I think the more that people wrestle with like, okay, what is it that I really want? And, and, and for the greater good of human flourishing, and then use your assignment to walk out that calling.

your life begins to expand in a much more spacious way. but I was going back to that season. Like I was, I was scared. was small-minded. was living in very small story. I wasn't, I wasn't expanding my own capacity to really think that I had agency in this situation to either choose to leave out of the organization in a healthy, thoughtful way, or agency to be able to change the organization.

and so I think when, when we would lose a sense of agency, we're actually ending up playing in these, smaller wound stories that all of us have in life. and so the difference for me, there's like, don't do therapy is like, 80 % of therapists think that talking about it, that story is going to solve your future narrative. but coaching in general is, is a lot more solution and focus, and empowering of like, how do you want to live a more spacious, life?

Sean Patton (39:44)
Yeah, what does fulfillment look like to you in the future? And I think you come from such a unique background because you had that family, right? And like marriage therapy background from, tell me if I'm wrong on your background, but you had that background then moved into coaching. And so of those two,

Lantz Howard (39:57)
Right.

Sean Patton (40:05)
One, like you mentioned, sort of past focused to explain the present, and then coaching being more defining the present or defining where the future and then establishing the present and then creating a path forward. Is that how you view it?

Lantz Howard (40:24)
Yeah.

A percent. mean, like a, like a valid question, right? If you were taking the posture of a coach, like in your, in your painful military season and divorce, how, how does some of those emotions today allow you to move forward? Right? So it's not, it's not negating any of Sean's story, any of his pain, but it's just trying to reframe the question in such a way that, that you see it in a way that it actually serves.

your future story versus continuing to hinder you in a, victimization mindset.

Sean Patton (40:59)
Yeah, I love what you're saying because I have this one of the, concept how I'm, how I like to frame in my head is the locus of control, right? Internal versus external locus of control. And, and so many people are living in that external locus of control attribution to, things that happen to them, to the people around them, to the people in their relationships, or they're living in the, in the past or future, which

we can't control either one. so bringing those lessons and recognizing that the only reality is the present moment. And it's also the only thing we can control. That takes so much work. It takes so much work to do it.

Lantz Howard (41:43)
Well, the first thing I would tell anybody is like, just turn off the news. Like, don't care what side of the political spectrum you're on. Like, they have sold us a lie of this huge mentality of we're all victims versus trying to empower us of the sense of freedom and responsibility. And so just like, even going back to my marriage and family therapy days, I'm thankful for one of my professors. She was like,

Sean Patton (41:48)
Yeah

Lantz Howard (42:10)
I would encourage all of you. mean, this was, man, almost 20 years ago, 16, 18 years ago. She's like, I didn't encourage all of you to just stop watching the news. She's like, the amount of stories that you're going to hear and your tolerance as a person can only hear so much crap in life. and so like, right. And so I think that's one way to grow up our emotional center is like,

pay super close attention to what's actually going inside of us, right? And this is something I'm guilty of. I use an excuse right now, like, well, I gotta have social media to grow a business. It's like, well, how can you grow a coaching practice without social media? that's the question I'm asking myself. And so the more that I ask myself that question puts me in this position of empowerment versus thinking as social media.

has this bad nemesis is like, okay, I'm empowered to figure something out. Like how can I grow this thing without it? If I had to, what would I do? You know?

Sean Patton (43:16)
They're hitting some points close to home for me too, because I have like a newsy political person, dude. within the last, can't tell, I don't remember exactly. It was maybe six months ago or something. I deleted the Apple news app on my phone. And I mean, had, I mean, I was probably, don't know how many people do this. I had the paid, I was paying a subscription to Apple to get all the news, right? Like I was paying, I was paying to have more news put on my phone.

Lantz Howard (43:22)
You

Sean Patton (43:45)
And I would scroll, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't like a doom scroller on Instagram or so I would just read the nose and man, you think people doom scroll Instagram or tick tock, try doom scrolling the news, man. It's like straight to the vein. you know, sensationalism worlds, everything's falling apart. mean, civil wars come in, prepare like it's your, and, and eventually I, I, I deleted the whole app off my phone about, about five, six months ago. Cause I was just like, I can't, I can't do this.

Lantz Howard (44:11)
love it.

Sean Patton (44:14)
And my the lie I tell my I told myself or the story I told myself was, you know, in order to be a responsible citizen, we have to be informed. And of course, there's a grain of truth to that, right? Like there's a grain of truth to like, and I consider myself a strong patriot, and I consider myself not that we're a perfect country by any stretch, but I've been on to a lot of other places in the world. And when I you know,

We're pretty blessed and it's special. And I do think that citizens have a responsibility, to continue that within the country. But I was telling myself the story that that meant I had to be attached to the 24 hour news cycle. And can you challenge that and say, well, how can I support that? Can I be an informed citizen? Can I be responsible? and without that, right? Like that challenging that assumption.

Lantz Howard (45:08)
What have you noticed that has shifted in your emotional capacity now versus, you know, five, six months ago?

Sean Patton (45:15)
I am much more centered. I'm much more present. And I have, feel like more space, I guess, emotionally.

without sort of that background, that background tension, that background, that background anxiety. And intellectually, what I found is that 98 % of all the things that you would have to read that I have to be informed about, like I one have no ability to control, right? Like I could do nothing about it.

And two, when it was, whether it was something I could vote, you know, I needed to vote on, or I could be more civically active about, most of it, it just went away into the ether, right? It was just, it was, it was a sensationalist story of the day and it's not going to matter in three months. It's not, you know, the, the, it's not an existential crisis to our way of life every day.

the way that it starts to make you feel that it is.

Lantz Howard (46:28)
100%.

Yeah, it's good.

Sean Patton (46:30)
Yeah. unless I, I feel like we could do this for hours. I appreciate, I appreciate the conversation. This was, this is a really great, episode. I think.

unique in the different conversations I've had to give people a sense of what a coaching mindset is. And I think you really blessed them with that. So I really appreciate that today.

Lantz Howard (46:52)
My pleasure, Sean. Thanks for the invite.

Sean Patton (46:54)
Absolutely, man. Well, I hope to catch up soon.

Lantz Howard (46:56)
Alright, blessings.