Embracing Vulnerability to Lead with Purpose w/ Scott Jarrell: Ep60

Summary

 In this episode of No Limits Leadership, Sean sits down with Scott Jarrell, a military veteran, healthcare leader, and entrepreneur dedicated to improving men’s health. Scott shares his journey from military service to building a mission-driven business, highlighting the power of vulnerability, resilience, and leading with love in every aspect of life.

Scott shares his journey from a challenging upbringing to becoming a leader in the military and now in his professional life, emphasizing the need for vulnerability and community among men. They discuss the impact of personal loss, the struggle with self-promotion, and the importance of creating safe spaces for men to express their emotions and seek help. The conversation highlights the significance of perspective gained from military service and the need for courage in addressing mental health issues, particularly in the veteran community.

Takeaways

Scott emphasizes the importance of sharing personal experiences to inspire hope in others.

The struggle between selflessness and self-promotion is a common challenge for leaders.

Military experience provides a unique perspective on leadership and teamwork.

Personal loss can lead to profound insights and growth.

Effective leadership requires learning to follow and understanding the needs of others.

Transitioning to military service can be a pivotal moment in one's life.

Emotional health is crucial for overall well-being and effective leadership.

Creating a safe space for men to express vulnerability is essential.

Men's health issues, including hormonal imbalances, are often overlooked.

Community and camaraderie are vital for supporting one another in difficult times.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Personal Journey

02:13 The Struggle with Self-Promotion

04:46 Lessons from Military Experience

07:30 Understanding Perspective and Violence

09:37 The Importance of Love and Unity

11:59 Navigating Personal Loss and Growth

14:24 Leadership and Following

16:30 The Role of Fatherhood in Leadership

19:07 The Impact of Military Training on Leadership

21:43 Transitioning to Civilian Life

24:14 The Importance of Vulnerability in Men

26:45 Creating a Safe Space for Men

29:07 The Role of Hormones in Mental Health

31:23 The Journey of Healing and Recovery

33:45 The Importance of Community and Support

36:12 The Need for Open Conversations

38:51 The Future of Men's Health

41:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Sean Patton (00:14)
Welcome to the no limits leadership podcast. I am your host Sean Patton and I'm so excited to be joined by my good friend Scott Jarrell today. and so Scott, just thanks for being here today. We've been, we've been trying to plan this for a while.

Scott (00:26)
Man, honestly, I'm truly honored. I know you asked me and it took me quite a bit of time to respond. I guess I feel one at times that my story isn't as impactful as it can be, or maybe it can be portrayed as an egotistical kind of thing or something to boost myself, but I just kind of had an improper attitude and that, know, the proper attitude is,

I've had a lot of experiences in this life. And those experiences have led me to where I'm at today in the position I'm in today. And they have molded me into who I am. And my experience can give other people hope, my strength, my walk through this difficult life can give others hope. And I think it'd be selfish to hold onto that. So.

Sean Patton (01:09)
I think that's such a good point because when, and I see this with a lot of military folks, especially a lot of high performing military people and veterans is, it's that, unless they're a Navy SEAL, jab, right? Right, just that like, that quiet professional attitude of, know, this selfless leadership, selfless service, it's not about me,

We get out in the civilian world, in the real world, and it's detrimental to us because we don't share, don't market ourselves the way somebody else is, and then somebody else without the message is the one that everyone's hearing, not the person who really they should be hearing from. don't know, what was that journey like for you, I Since you mentioned, I'm really interested. How has that been?

to where you as a business owner and successful and trying to overcome sort of that ingrained selfless humility, die, don't talk about myself type of mentality.

Scott (02:06)
Man, you know, I think it was pushed into me at earlier age, Like, you know, religiously.

that selfishness, selfish attitude or boosting yourself up and bragging and all that was bad. And, you know, when I was younger and people started doing touchdown dances, listening to the older people around me saying how bad that was because, you know, it wasn't showmanship and all this kind of stuff. you know, it's kind of like you said, you know, the quiet professional and kind of just, I mean, everybody's going to embrace the suck and continue to move through and do the job. And am I going against the grain and am I making things more difficult on others?

Or am I pulling my weight and doing the best I can for the thing I'm asked to do and therefore pulling into the team and making it to be this synergistic effort that nobody could ever do alone. And I think that's why the might of our military is so mighty. I think that's why the might of this country, where it was and where it can be again, is finding that unity again and serving and coming together for that common purpose and goal, which is for one another.

I mean, that's, that's what it's really about. So, you know, I feel like it was different, being in the military where, when I was in a position where I was low ranking and, had to learn to follow, right? Like first thing beat into you in basic training. mean, the biggest part of it is, is following, following orders, doing what you're asked to do and nothing else and quit thinking on your own. is solely for a purpose to teach you how to follow.

And I truly believe that, I cannot be a good leader if I don't know how to follow. Because even though I may be in a position of leading today, I'm still following, who I follow and what I follow is something that dwells within me. And it is, my relationship with God and that's, that's, I'm still a servant. And, you know, for me, Jesus led the best example. It's the servant leadership kind of mentality. It's a little different than

what I initially went into, but I learned through business and other things that, I have to serve the people that are serving me. I mean, I have to, I have to support them. have to serve them, have to be able to be in the trenches with them, as you know. there are builds no greater bond than the one that's built in that form of stress or that form of, of being in the, in the crap of things together. it was a learned process. There were a lot of pain though. I can tell you that I wouldn't worry.

Sean Patton (04:23)
And it sounds like you're still struggling to find what is that balance, right? Of like expressing and sharing who you are and your lessons and kind of stepping into that role versus sort of the conditioning and belief system of the selflessness and sort of feeding the background and it's bad to stand out or it's...

it's bragging as opposed to like what's what's bragging versus what's leading, right? Like what's sharing ideas and it sounds like you're still kind of you're still kind of finding that balance.

Scott (04:46)
I get it, man. It's a fine line, I think. Yeah, I think it's a fine line. think the way you're articulated, it's perfect. For me, it is a struggle. It is a balance. It's, you know, yes, I've been successful. Yes, I own a, a business now. And, you know, this kid from a parish of New Orleans who dad left in fifth grade,

right before Christmas, just, just all these things I remember to being poor, getting a choice of, and you know, poor in a sense, like I had a choice for school, whether I got one pair of jeans that was brand, or I got two pair of rustler from, from Walmart, you know, you have the choice of having two or having one, but the one is the name brand and the name brand had meaning and had purpose and it had, I'm not going to get picked on for being poor. Right. So

You know, you go for the, went for the one and just wash it more, you know, and to being someone where I'm at now, I mean, it's, it's, it's wild. It's a trip.

I'm just amazed how things progressed and how every little part got me to where I am today. It made me who I am today and are continuing to evolve me both as a man, as a leader, as an owner, and as a friend. mean, because it's all to get better at these things. And for me, it's just to love one another, love us through our differences, celebrate them.

It's not a thing of contention that we try to make it be. It needs to be a thing of understanding, not conflict. But the violent come and take, and we're in a world that the violence still come and take. And you know very well about that world. And I think that is a world that people like us can change. And that is a world that people and I can live.

the dream to try to make it a reality for everyone and can help start bridging the gap back to becoming one, one nation under God, you know, and that's just my belief system.

Sean Patton (06:50)
think that there's, it's just an interesting conversation that I don't get into much, but I think one of the, I don't see differences or like gaps in understanding is perspective. I tell people all the time and they say, what's the biggest lesson you got from your time in the military? And I tell them all the time, perspective. Like it gave me a perspective about the way the world,

actually works the way people actually work because when you go to the edges of the world, the edges of civilization, I sell a time and I said in my book how, the only reason we have this thing we have, the reason we can have this conversation, we have safety, security, prosperity, all those things is because the government has a monopoly on violence.

Scott (07:13)
Yeah.

Sean Patton (07:30)
Like that's, that's why, right? Like, and, people can say it's, it's, it's not some, you know, manifest destiny, some like some American exceptionalism or anything like that. It's, it's just that like we've developed a system where like, if, if a bad guy shows up at your house with a shotgun, you call the police, somebody else with a bigger shotgun shows up. And if more of them show up, then more of them show up. And eventually, you know, the air force shows up.

Scott (07:30)
I agree. Yeah.

from taking care of the business.

Sean Patton (07:54)
and drops a 2000 pound bomb on your house because you're surrounded by bad guys. That's just the way, that's why, right? if you disagree with that, you haven't been to places where the government doesn't have monopoly on violence. Where when the bad guy shows up to your doorstep, there's no one to call. because that's the way the real world is. you the world is savagery. And I guess people who have seen,

Scott (08:05)
Yeah.

Sean Patton (08:15)
that or experience that in different shapes or forms. It's how do we share that same perspective or that gratitude and the importance of continuity and the importance of the collective over the individual with somebody who's never left the cocoon of American safety.

Scott (08:34)
Man, I think that's, I think it's a difficult bridge to gap. I think that's part of the issue, why we are where we are, is this inability to fully grasp that we even have the capability and the safety and the ability to have the vulnerability.

to even talk about the things that we talk about in this country. Because a lot of people are just trying to eat. A lot of people are just trying to escape violence. People coming into their house in the middle of the night and doing things to them. They're rummaging through trash piles to find something to eat for their family.

It's insane and we have the means to meet the need.

but we're stuck in our own selfishness in this country, right? Like we're all stuck in pontificating whether this or that is right, instead of just going to the basic fundamental of it all, which is to have love and respect for one another, even when you think they don't deserve it. It's even more rewarding, I've learned in my life, to give it when it's not deserved, or when I feel it's not deserved, I should say.

Because to me, it doesn't get any more real or true than that. That if that man that wants to come to my house with a shotgun and wants to come and take mine, quote unquote, take mine.

to be able to not meet force with force, but to meet with love and to meet with...

maybe meeting a need that has the individual in that situation or circumstance to begin with, I'm evolving into this different perspective of that because you you would ask me right when I got out the military, someone comes in my house with a shotgun, I don't need to call them.

Sean Patton (10:09)
Yeah.

Scott (10:09)
I mean, it's a done deal. You know what I mean? You're not going to, you're not going to come up on here that way. And I don't know, man. I just feel like where I'm at, what I've learned in running a business and what I've learned in, and in continuing to learn is that a lot of us, and I would say probably almost a hundred percent of us in this world, in this country are just trying to get through the day.

And we're just trying to take care of ours. We're trying to take care of whether it's our family or loved ones, a friend, trying to meet these needs. Now, some of that is perversed and changed by the advertising that we have in this country that isn't like other countries and doesn't exist in other countries.

Sean Patton (10:55)
Can you, I don't know if everyone knows what you mean by that. Can you tell, like what are you talking about? Like what are we advertising in this country that other countries don't advertise?

Scott (11:00)
What the?

I mean, it's the luxuries of life. It's the luxuries of the American life, right? It's the watch, it's the cars, it's the drugs, it's the alcohol, it's the sports. And I'm not against all those things. Those things are neither good or bad. I don't mean to come off sounding like that. I'm just saying that.

it brings no value to life, It doesn't add to life. It continues to help keep me separated for the desire to attain those things. Cause if I attain those things and I've made the dream and if I've made the dream, then I did it, man. serve my country. I've got a family history of serving our beautiful country.

I got an education from serving our country. That education got me the ability to own a business. All of these things should make me happy, right? And I'll tell you, that's all right, man.

I have.

more joy in my heart.

that my 18 year old, we just sent to college this year.

has a love for God.

over those things, over those things that we're talking about in the advertising world, over all that, and understands how important that is and understands how important the unity and love and compassion for others is. That to see the similarities and quit trying to focus on the differences and, man, you you want me to define success for me? That's it.

none of this other stuff, like that's it. And that is only possible because of the things I've been through. I have a loving and caring, living, breathing God who has showed me through the path of a lot of wrong choices to get to a place where I can experience and was able to experience what real love is in that.

You and I can change that because you know the ugly side of the violence and you know what it looks like. You know what it feels like.

and to know that that doesn't have to be the way. And it all starts with people in position like you and I to impact others, to show them that, it's really about the love. It just is. you know, I know this is about leadership, but I guess for me, I tried to lead with love. I tried to love others. And man, I don't do it perfectly. Man, I step on people's toes all the time. You know what I mean? I still have this military

leader mentality in me that says, told you to freaking do it. So you need to freaking do it. You're an adult. You understand what I'm saying. Just please do it. Like it's very simple, but people don't respond to that here. There's just not the same consequences, in the military, you do it or don't do it. Then you chose consequences by your inaction for not following the order. Right. And that inaction in a critical situation can cost lives. And so there's no room for

And people that haven't been put in a situation where not following instructions or orders can cost lives. They don't understand, I just get another job. It's cool. You know, I'll have 10 jobs this year in a 12 month period. It's cool. Nobody cares, you know, but somebody like you or myself doesn't see that that person may not be redeemable into the workforce. But our first inclination is this is somebody who's not going to get the job done. This is somebody who's not going to

be there for the mission. This is somebody who's going to back out of the mission when it gets tough. This is going to be somebody who backs out of the mission for 50 cents more an hour.

What do you stand for? You know, what do you stand for? And I've lost good people because they've better themselves from the position they were at working for us. And it sucks. Cause I see, I saw the potential to begin with, right? And maybe I'm a part of them helping recognize that and to move on to the next steps. I hope I am. Because I think that's what a good leader does too,

I want to train people to do what I do when I'm gone. I want people to do what I do without skipping a beat. If I have a heart attack and die in the middle of this podcast, that they will just pick up and continue to move. And I have no doubt they can. I have no doubt they can. and I think part of that ability was learned in the military because

Sean Patton (15:15)
You

Scott (15:16)
We all come from different backgrounds. Some farm, some city, some suburban, all different ethnicities, colors, religions.

I remember basic training, man. I mean, we were just all scared, Like, I mean, get up, get naked. What? Where am I? What did I join? That was the first wake up call. And man, you know, but I looked around and everybody looked the same, looked scared. And from that point forward, who's pulling their weight? Who's doing the thing? I don't care what you look like. I don't care what you believe because your actions are going to far outweigh anything that comes out of your mouth. And

Sean Patton (15:31)
You

Scott (15:50)
The military, the great part of it for me is it really opened my eyes to that.

A lot of the differences are awesome because they can sand some of my sharp edges that don't need to be rigid. It's just what I learned. It's just my life experience, And it's such a small part of a huge, much more magnificent picture. being a dad gets rid of some sharp edges, man. At least if you're trying to do it right, I think it did for me.

I'll put it that way. I had a lot of sharp edges and I think I got girls because if I got boys, I'd probably just try to raise little mini me's man. it, would be harder for me not to get physical with them. I'm just being real. mean, it would, but man, girls, they broke my heart and, in a good way. I think.

Sean Patton (16:30)
Yeah.

Yeah, it sounds like it sounds like it healed stronger, you know, or differently.

Scott (16:38)
Man, I agree. think it healed into a mend, It was mended into something. It didn't just pull the fabric together, but it pulled the fabric together and then was reinforced with something special and great. that opened my eyes to understand true unconditional love and trying to give that back to others. It's hard, but...

For me, it's the goal and it doesn't always mean you're going to both go the same way. I mean, I've learned that too. Sometimes people are going to go a different way and that's okay. You know, we are different. We are made not in the same way and the sense of how we're raised and this and that and some things we're just not going to see eye to eye. I mean, that's okay too. I I know you've dealt with those situations and you may have, as I have even dealt with them in the military and you know, but if you outrank me and it's moral.

And it's ethical and okay. I made my point. I'm going to move on. Yes, sir. Let's go. You know, if it fails, I don't say I told you so, or well, I told you I was right. I never did that to a superior. it wasn't my job. I wasn't part of the, committee, the after committee to, discuss what went wrong and blah, blah, blah. Right. Like it wasn't my role, man. And I think that the absolute positive

of the military was, I mean, there's a lot, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to short it, but for me was to show me one, how to truly follow without question. And even when I did to die to it and keep moving forward and assume that somebody had my best interests in mind, whether it was the mission or not, still, usually it's part of your people around you best interests. And then to...

Except the aftermath, because it is what it is. what happened happened. You we can learn from it, but I can't change it. You know, and I think a lot of us and men in general, we hold on to a lot of the negative choices and the negative outcomes when in a leadership role, because it does affect others. You know, and I think that's probably the hardest part for a lot of

newer generation, younger leaders that are getting put in this position of thrust in this position by power of a degree or whatever, where they got these degrees and now they're automatically in a position of leadership without having any training or understanding on how to talk to people, how to help people, how to help get the best out of people, which is going to help get the best out of you or me and what I'm trying to do. And I think that's a big shortcoming because again,

I had to learn to follow before I could become a second.

Sean Patton (19:10)
I think that's a huge, a huge point that, you know, lot of maybe younger people are, you know, they want to get to the higher position or the higher whatever, you know, they see that the outcome, Like you see, you, you, see the results of, or the position, but you didn't see us all the, the whole, steps to get there. and I think that you do, I believe too, that you, a good, a great leader has to be.

Scott (19:26)
Yeah.

Sean Patton (19:34)
a, you have to be a great follower. You have to be a great peer. You know, have to lead up, down and across and, and, and until you learn to follow, like learning to follow is one of the best ways it's like really essential in terms of actually learning how to lead. You have to see the other side of it. Right. It's like, and I do think it's so important. You mentioned the, you a few times kind of your experience. what, you you coming from that, that background you had and when you were younger, what got you in the air force from there? Like what?

Scott (19:40)
Thank

Sean Patton (20:01)
What was that decision like?

Scott (20:02)
man. So, you know, like I said, well, I'll say, excuse me. I was born in New Orleans. My father was a Huey pilot for the big red one. And so our first base was going to Fort Riley, Manhattan, Kansas. And, you know, it was cool. I got to experience a lot of cool things as a young kid, especially back then, you know, helicopter rides.

stuff like that. There was also the side of it, you know, it was, they were more operational. He went home a lot. and then we, he was getting stationed at Fort Rucker. So we moved to enterprise Alabama. And during that time he had gotten into an affair with his best friend's wife actually. And, it was very difficult not knowing, knowing something was going on. You know, I'm only in fourth grade about to start fifth and not really knowing what's going on.

And then, you know, it was around Christmas time. My mom took my brother and myself because my dad wasn't home and went to a hotel. didn't even know what was going on. Right. was like, dad's here at a hotel. Okay. Let's go see dad. And, you know, he was there with another woman. So I was exposed to kind of that whole, tumultuous emotional situation of an adult situation kind of early on. And from that point on, you know, my dad left and it

I became the quote unquote man of the house at that point. I don't know what a man was, you know what mean? I don't have a clue, but that term and that phrase was given to me quite often. So I did feel this responsibility, right? This responsibility to take care of and to try to help out. And I was very compliant. I was a good kid for a while. And then fast forward, had a stepfather come in. He was an alcoholic.

He was abusive. was, man, he was, he could just be a very violent man. And it was very weird because he could also be a very loving man. You know what I mean? It was the total doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation at times. I mean, as all somebody gets stabbed with a, he broke a cue over someone's back. And of course it left a jagged wood edge of the queue and he was just trying to gore him out with it, know, beat the

old English bulldog that was almost a hundred pounds, just big, beautiful beast that was nothing but love unless you tried to wake her up and then she would snip because she'd been abused and beat her to death with his own hands because she bit him one night. so there was a lot of things that took place that were rough, And I probably started out experimenting with alcohol pretty early on.

and from that point, you know, started smoking weed and doing some other things here and there. And basically got kicked out of the house 17 because police came out of house, asking questions about some things and they didn't like the police coming in their house. And so I got pushed out and understandably now I can understand it. And I was pretty mad then though, of course, you know, and some else that went to college, still doing things, started finding a groove and out of my own.

Sean Patton (22:37)
you

Scott (22:59)
and my brother died and he was 19 years old. So he was killed and two groups of kids were inebriated in some form or fashion. Some stories say they were just drunk. Some stories say they were drunk and were on acid, but they were racing down a road. One of the vehicles lost control. hit a telephone pole and three of the kids died.

Sean Patton (23:04)
you

Scott (23:24)
I knew all three. man, honestly was, it's still a little hard. I still miss them. I still love them. I just have a different perspective than I had been. Back then it was just anger. It was anger, man. Like why'd that happen? Why are you taking away the only person I knew who knew all the bad stuff that happened in our lives is gone. Like my validation kind of to my story and my best friend is gone, right?

Sean Patton (23:28)
you

Scott (23:50)
And man, I just went down into an abyss kind of, you know, I was with my wife back then, but we were boyfriend, girlfriend. I broke up with her. I had like survivor's guilt early on. I didn't even know what it was. Right. Like I couldn't feel love when I did feel love or touch or any of that. I just felt guilty. I felt I didn't deserve it. My brother couldn't feel it. It was just weird. Right. Like

I didn't know what it was. So I turned to drink and more. I left, I broke up with her. I went to Mobile and went to the South Alabama to try to go to school there. But I was drinking pretty heavy and partying and at night, man, I just try to fight. I just try to fight every, to the point where most people, some people didn't want to go out on the weekends anymore because Scott was probably going to get drunk and then get us in a fight.

And man, honestly, I just wanted I wanted everyone to feel my pain or in my looking back. I think that was really what I was trying to do was either be taken off or take someone else. And I really didn't want to kill anyone. I don't know. I don't think I did. But I don't even think I fought on that level, right? It was just how do I make the pain stop and how do I make someone else feel it? And I woke up one day, man, I looked at myself in the mirror. I couldn't even recognize who I was. I started to talk about.

change and I felt kind of led man, honestly, to go. My grandfather was a pilot with the Army Air Corps. My dad was a pilot, Huey pilot. So I kind of felt led to go into the military and that's kind of how the Air Force came. I kind of was talking to everybody, you know, and of course you go to the Navy recruiter or you could be a SEAL. I don't know I could be a SEAL. I mean, you're looking at 145 pound dude, you know, back then. I understand now they're just trying to get me signed up.

You know, I went to the army dude and he said the same. I was like, I don't know about any of that, but I went to the air force because they had some medical opportunities. And one of the things that they did guarantee me would translate to making money on the outside world too. So that's what I chose, man. And honestly for me, best thing ever. Best thing. I still have a lot of growth to do and I had some things to shake that got shook later on, but to help get structure back in my life, to help get.

Sean Patton (25:49)
Hmm.

Scott (25:58)
Be here at this time. Do this this way. Just give it to me and I'll follow it. I was very compliant. I knew how to be compliant. And so I did well, And through that opportunity, I had a supervisor who believed in me and he got me into the PA program. And I shouldn't even have been accepted into it because I was still in my tech school or what you army guys call your MLS training. And we call AFSOC.

Sean Patton (26:19)
Mm.

Scott (26:22)
It just happened, man. It was, it was divine. So was pretty cool. So I went through the army and air force program at Fort Sam and that's how I became a PA man. And the rest is kind of cool. That's, that's how I became a leader, right? I became a leader by a degree and by my medical education and training that the military provided for me. And, but I knew how to follow me because I was a prior enlisted dude.

I knew when I became a leader, I wasn't going to be the guys that I knew were bad and didn't know what they were doing. And so I listened to my staff and then I still make a decision. I still use that to this day. I listened to my staff. It doesn't mean I'm going to take the path that you suggest, but I'm going to listen and I'm going to give credence to it because I've learned that there's a lot of good people in the world. And some of the ones that I thought and prejudged that may not have nothing or anything to contribute had some of the best ideas ever.

And it's the same way now. I just learned to be more open -minded about it. So that's how it came to be in the military, man. My dad showed up at it, made a little bit of a mockery of it, but whatever. We had a weird dynamic to the day he died. Seven years without talking, then talked for six months, and then two years without talking. mean, was just...

Sean Patton (27:26)
Mm

Scott (27:32)
tumultuous because of his addiction issues and me putting boundaries up, not exposing my kids to that life. Cause I had, I had been through that life. I know what it's like. I know the feelings and the lack of anger. I don't want to expose my kids to it, but, you know, I don't know, man, I will say this, man. sorry. I know this is a little bit of a loop. I told you I tend to go to a loop, but my dad died over two years ago and, man.

We're close. So it's weird. It's weird to have emotion tied to it, right? It's weird to have loss tied to it because I really don't know the guy that passed. I don't know him. A lot of people came up to the funeral and told me who he was and this and that. I had a choice in that matter, right? I could have been a prick. Yeah, well, you don't know the prick I know. You don't know the dude that didn't love me. You don't know the dude that never showed up for me. I'm glad he could.

I just thought, man, I'm glad it could be that for you. And I think the tears are from loss is something that never could be or probably could never be to the level I wanted it or made it in my head that I wanted it to be. That relationship, that father -son perfect relationship, just wasn't it, But I've learned to be appreciative. Same with my brother's loss. I've learned to be appreciative of what I did get.

what I did get, I learned what my choices to make. I know how my father chose things and made choices. And I know how that felt. And I chose differently with my kids, man. And, man, it worked. Yeah. So thanks. mean, I got gratitude for it, you know, I still have this weird sensation like this upper echelon of leadership's been taken away.

Right? Like I'm that guy now. And I think that's part of what led me to agreeing to do this is like, I'm that guy now. I'm the patriarch of my family, man. My dad's gone. All my grandparents have gone and my brother's gone. It's really just kind of me. And, you know, I need to step up. I know I can. I've been trained to.

I've learned by following, I've been trained in leadership courses through the military. I've been trained through courses, life courses, right? Failure. I've just, I've learned how to.

Avoid the fire, quit putting my hand in it, quit getting burned, you know, because I'm an idiot. I will burn my hand again sometimes, you know, and I know the answer. but I try not to do that one too much, but my family might say otherwise.

Sean Patton (29:51)
Well, I think it's such an important perspective. There's such powerful experiences. So, you thank you for sharing those. I think everybody has to different extents in that. don't think, you know, comparison is healthy for anything because everybody experienced differently, but, if, if you're around long enough, you're to have some sort of loss. you're going to have some sort of pain and,

but to your point, what you do, what's the next decision, right? Like how do you frame that so that this can be for you? And it sounds like, wouldn't wish those experiences on anyone, but since they happened, like you were able to at least come around to a perspective where it made you.

make decisions about how to show up as a father, how to show up as a leader, how to show up as a man that maybe you were able to reflect on those experiences as opposed to have to maybe live some of those lessons yourself even more, right? Like you're able to make a decision about the good things that happened to you, the bad things that happened to How do we as leaders, as people reflect on that?

and how do we use those lessons to make ourselves constantly grow to better humans.

Scott (31:06)
I think the nail on the head for me, you know, I think the biggest part of it, what I can truly and honestly say, and we didn't get into all, I mean, I know this isn't about that, know, all the depths that I went to, the bottoms I felt, just the absolute.

consequences of horrible decisions, I've suffered them. I've had to go through them. I've had to walk through them. And I had a choice in those to walk through them run away. I can still, I live in a country where I can run away from anything. You know, I go to Alaska. I mean, I can find solitude and get away from the bad things I did. But

Not but. And what I've learned from not choosing that is...

that I 100 % could not be who I am, where I am, and doing the things I'm doing currently without any of those bad experiences, bad choices. All the failures still ultimately ended me up being here. And I had to make a choice during those failures. I mean, it's lost, man. It's lost. Just like you said, if we're blessed to live somewhat of a full life,

It's going to have loss because the only way I experienced loss is because I love. And so if I love, I'm going to experience loss. So I think loss and people experiencing loss, I think what I do wrong is I don't allow myself to feel the loss, to mourn the loss, to accept the loss, to come through that process and truly grieve it.

I think having girls helps me, man. it, it, you know, they can lose a hairbrush bro. And it's, it's, it's an emotional loss, right? Like something that didn't go for their plan for that moment. it's chaos and loss and tears. And then they move on. There's something healing in that. they, as silly as it is, it's, it's, it's a healing process and I'm a stuffer

And you're taught the stuff in the military, let's be real. You are, you got to do the mission now out in the civilian side. It does help me to be successful. I'm not going to lie. I don't know if I shared this with you before or not. And I know we might be getting close to the end and we want to talk about a few things, but about three years ago, I had a...

Sean Patton (33:20)
No, okay.

Scott (33:25)
a medical thing with my daughter. And it was pretty scary. And through that process, Natalie then got appendicitis. So I have one daughter in the hospital, Natalie, who's my wife. I don't own her, but who I'm married to, was in the hospital having surgery for appendicitis. And then,

Right after that, we all got COVID, right, for the first time. And it was the Delta version back when COVID, you know, mattered from that standpoint. it was still early enough to be scared of it and still, even with medical knowledge, I'm not going to lie, you know, I was scared. I knew all the statistics, but it didn't mean when I got it, I didn't go to the panic and gloom and doom phase like some of us do. And then right after that, get through it and have this big ordeal of insurance, you know, as a business owner. That was very difficult.

to deal with. was a very significant impact, negative impact on the business. And to go up against a huge corporation like that as an ant, it was a difficult trying process. And then to coming through the outside of that to my dad dying, that two years of a lot, owning and running a business through it all.

I stuffed a lot because I still had a mission. I still was taken care of and keeping a safe home and doing the best I could there. And I still had people here I had to take care of. And this organism that is a small business still needed a leader to continue to lead despite the circumstances that he was going through. I was, you know, I had been trained on how to deal with that situation.

I have. Yeah, it hurts. It's scary. It's anxious inducing. Okay, and let's go. Keep moving. Yeah, I might lose it all. I'm not gonna die though. Not here. I'm okay. But it's sometimes getting grasped by the reality of the situation and understanding that, okay, I don't have the space to deal with this right now, but then I look.

I've learned to carve out time to deal with that and to allow it to exist and to release that back out. And, I don't know what my staff would say. Our employees probably have mixed views. I'm a passionate person. I know you probably know that about me, but I really, I'm passionate. I do men's health. I do nothing but men. And I got here because of my own circumstances and being kind of prejudged.

being a PA for all these years and then having problems and people telling me basically felt like I was trying to get PEDs, performance enhancing drugs, you know, because it was all based off what I look like, not what I was going through.

Sean Patton (36:00)
I'm a stuffer too. think a lot of us are, we get good at it. And I think you're right. It's a power, it can be powerful skill in the moment in the acute timeframe. But if it becomes chronic,

Scott (36:10)
It is. It is in the emergency, right? It is in the emergency.

Sean Patton (36:13)
Yeah, it is. then if you don't, what we don't get taught is how to properly release and let go. And you talk about men's health. mean, there's a reason that we die sooner. The reason that we have high blood pressure, reason because we're stuffing and we're not given space. The perception, I think for a lot of us is we're not given the space even societally or family like.

Scott (36:24)
Thank

Sean Patton (36:36)
We have to always be that rock. We're still a human being, but for some reason, because of our chromosome, we have to always be the steady one. We're not allowed to show or release those emotions in a healthy way. And they show up in these unhealthy ways like alcohol, drug abuse, like violence, like all those other areas. So think it's just something a lot of us can relate to and important for us.

to carve out time to something I'm still working on too is sitting in emotion, feeling emotion, trying to learn from the wisdom of emotion and finding healthy ways to come back and recognize when I'm off kilter.

Scott (37:15)
Yeah, I mean, and to realize for me to realize that my emotions aren't facts. They're not factual information going on around me. is not truth. It can be, it can be, but it is by and large for myself specifically, it's charged. It's gassed up. It's fueled.

It's got something else going to it, right? Past hurt, past something else brought into a situation that has no bearing on that situation. And that's, that's the hard part. And that's the part where I'm at is leaving. I'm trying to grow from that. to speak to the point about, yeah, I totally agree with guys. We're not able, I feel like, you know, like just then, man, I would never have allowed myself to shed tears over something I was proud of or something that I had lost.

whether people can relate or not, Like just grab yourself by the bootstraps, pull up your pants and let's go, dude. Like, what are you doing? We ain't got time for that. nobody wants to hear that. It's not being a man, you know? it's supposed to be this thing that only, like you said, a foundational rock that not supposed to have negative emotions, not supposed to cry. Well, it leads to frustration, leads to anger.

leads to irritability, leads to depression, leads to anxiety. And then those things will physically manifest in our bodies and take other things away, Mess with hormone production. You know, a lot of why I created the business I had is I, when somebody found out what was going on with me hormonally with low testosterone, the place that showed me it also went to work for, and I learned about it.

And they did a lot of things right. And they gave me an opportunity too. you know, I got, I had nothing negative to say about the experience, except they could have took it next level And I feel like the need was out there as a man not having what I was thinking of. So after that, you know, I went to took a job at the hospital because I had to contractually. So if I was going to do what I wanted to do, I had to have space and time right from a contract and I was going to honor it.

no matter what, I my name to it. And so when that time was up, talk about being comfortable, I was comfortable working at the hospital, I making great money, why would I leave? And I kind of kicked the can a little bit until they took away our PTO. And then that made me uncomfortable again. I'm like, yeah. So we started our own business to take care of men for men. So it's a place that's for men, men's health, promotes men.

allows them in a safe space to be vulnerable, to share these kinds of things that we're sharing, if they so choose, without any fear of repercussion or judgment. We have an array of personalities and guys here that a lot of guys can click to, so it's like almost everyone can come and feel comfortable with somebody who can relate to them.

Sean Patton (39:57)
I wanna know like why specifically men's health? That's a very deliberate decision. And obviously it comes from some of your experiences and your viewpoints on healthcare and where you wanna be, like, why that? Why did you go all in in that?

Scott (40:10)
Man, I got a heart for dudes, especially vets, especially first responders. I feel like.

A lot of us are just taught that grab yourself by the bootstraps, just keep going, just keep going. And there's not a place where you can feel safe to not be that, to let go of that, to fall apart a little, to be with a bunch of guys that are trying to get better. Iron sharpens iron, And I'm a firm believer in that. I'm a firm believer that I have a story and that I have...

a faith and that I can share that and help somebody else, not just in a physical manner, in a mental manner, in emotional manner, and sometimes a spiritual manner that I can help someone through something because of my experiences that I can say I'm a victim of, I can say I'm a survivor of, or I can just say, hey, look, this is something that happened and this is how I got through and this is the way I'm now. And to be able to give

guys a place who don't have a place to get together, right? I mean, some people have men's group. I don't know, man. I've been to those. Sometimes they're just superficial. Nobody's willing to be vulnerable, but there's something about a one -on -one situation. And you're a medical provider about being someone in a safe place where they can kind of let go of that. And I just got a passion to help men be men again. And I don't mean men that are tough and full of bravado and big muscles and shh, you know.

and all that, I'm including those. I want those too. I'm not saying no to that. I'm saying to me, being a man is like we're talking about. It's being courageous to share the emotions with another man. Being a man to me is willing to break down in front of another man, even if you don't know him, to let go, to be able to, because we should be able to rely on one another to hold each other.

That's what we did. That's what I missed from the military. I miss that commado router. I miss that. Everyone's got my back. That was not out here when I got out and it did hurt me. it led to negative path of mental abuse on myself and depression and some anxiety, not feeling my space or place. And I wanted to recreate that from that kind of angle too.

Got a lot of vets that come here. Got a lot of police that come here. Got a lot of just dudes that come here. I just want dudes. I want them to know that, yeah, it gets better. Yeah. Man, that sucks, dude. Sucks. How can I support you? Right? Like how can I serve you in this time of need? How can I not just medically take care of your needs? And it's not with everybody. Some people still close off. It's cool. I mean, I get it.

was closed off for a long time and it takes what it takes. But I love being a part of the process. I love seeing that change, we have a mutual friend who started coming to me recently, I'm not going to say names because we didn't talk about this before. And he's a combat vet and seeing this man feel like himself again and being a man again, to see

that passion behind the eyes, to see the love return behind the eyes, the smile come back. Nothing better, man. There's not a better job for me.

Sean Patton (43:29)
Well, I know you had some experiences too with when you have all these other compounding factors creating a health condition, is increasingly common, think, among men, specifically like low testosterone and all the other things that come with that. I know for me, when we met,

Scott (43:39)
Mmm.

Sean Patton (43:48)
I guess it was, geez, seven years ago or something like that, man. Maybe eight years ago? think was eight years ago, And you know, I...

Scott (43:52)
8 years ago bro

No, it was nine. It was nine. Sorry. It was almost a decade, buddy.

Sean Patton (44:00)
Yeah. crazy. Yeah. 2015. And, you know, I had, you know, my own experience in terms of when I got back from Afghanistan, pretty violent deployment. And then on top of that, I went through, you know, a abusive, emotionally abusive, you know, bad relationship and all these things happen. And, you know, during that time, it's so crazy. was in military and I

I had gynecomastia. started, I like, my hormones were so jacked after the point that, you know, I started growing breast tissue, right? I had to have surgery and have it cut out and still.

Scott (44:32)
It's Yeah. And it's how your body dealt with the trauma physically. had physical reaction. That's crazy.

Sean Patton (44:38)
Yeah. And, and, you know, and still no mention of, maybe we should check, you know, or I think my hormone levels are like, they said they were, they were like, whatever they were two or 300. It's like, well, you know, it's, it's low, but like, there was no mention of like, how do we treat it? You know? Yeah. And of course, you know, I could have gotten on, you know, I could have gone on all kinds of medications, like, you know, but actually like treating the underlying cause or help and

Scott (44:51)
You're fine. You're fine.

Sean Patton (45:04)
So it was really bad. then, man, I'll just say that your treatment of me and what you do changed my life. It changed my mental state. Everything about my body helped me get to a place I could deal with some of the things that I was having to deal with and still am. And it did change my life. So thank you for that.

Thank you for what you do. know, yeah. And, you know, and it's so crazy. just tell people like, because then I had to, I had to come off a sauce run recently because my wife and I were, you know, working and having some struggles, getting pregnant. We were pregnant now and doing January little boy coming and super, yeah. So, so excited. But I'll tell you that again,

Scott (45:24)
Honored to be part of the path here. I really, really...

Mommy.

Sean Patton (45:46)
when those hormones got off again, I got to feel again at what that felt like, So it's one those things like, don't know how bad you feel until you don't feel that way anymore, Like the overweight person doesn't realize, like, well, I don't feel that bad, but like,

Scott (45:54)
Fire for second.

Sean Patton (45:58)
But if you lost 50 pounds, you'd realize how bad you actually feel. Like it's the same thing. I didn't realize how bad it, cause you know, I health issues, Pete, know, my PTSD mental, I mean, I had not to go too into it, like, yeah, I, know, for the first time a long time, thoughts of self -harm. like, what am I, what is happening? And, and someone who doesn't know and can't attribute it to like, this, this, my, my body being off is contributing to this. Someone who didn't realize that, man, I don't know where, you know,

Scott (46:00)
Correct. 100%.

man, I get it dude.

Sean Patton (46:26)
where I would be if I was that person without that knowledge of how my body works.

Scott (46:30)
100%, dude. 100%. I think you couldn't have said it better because I think that's a huge contributing factor to, especially in the vet community, where we're having so many of our brothers kill themselves. I think it's huge because when you go through the VA system and you have these kinds of things, it's just drug after drug after drug and then a drug to deal with the side effect of the other drugs and the deal of side effect of that drug.

and just get to be a walking zombie, I agree it's better than killing yourself. I 100 % agree. I don't agree that it's the proper method and the way to approach it. And I'm thankful for the vets that I get. I'm thankful for the guys that I get like yourself that I have an opportunity to share my experience, strength and hope, and to be a part of that change and to try to get to the root of it and try to fix the root of the problem.

And sometimes the root of the problem is it's testosterone. mean, you're lacking in the chronicity of the trauma, the chronicity of the events, the chronicity of the damage to the pituitary gland, which releases the hormones to the testicles or the testicles themselves and their capability to produce it. The chronicity is irreversible, right? And a lot of the cases, sometimes it's not, sometimes you can reverse it, but in taking that and to try to help people get off of those medicines and help people to understand that.

You're meant to, can't be mentally strong if I am mentally deficient. If I am deficient in something that makes me who I am, how can I expect to be and feel who I am? I can't feel like the man I am if I am deficient in that hormone. It's a male sex hormone and that affects other hormones, Like there's a whole cascade of things that it affects and it can lead to diabetes, have blood pressure. mean, it really is a catalyst for a lot of negative health.

And so your story is the same as mine. I had thoughts of self -harm. I actually tried self -harm and I woke up the next day and that was a catalyst for a different change in my life. And it was a change that led to the path that I'm on now. And, you know, there's a lot of us that deal with it and it's, it's so weird that we don't talk about it in the

community, I feel like enough because we're, have a higher completion rate. When we get to a place to do it, we do it. Right. I didn't choose a pistol. I had my reasons. I wanted to make sure life insurance was paid and other things so that it would look like an accident. I mean, I had purpose. mean, that's how deep down the depression rabbit hole I went. Then I wanted to end this, but I also wanted to make sure I didn't end it for the people who still relied on me to support for

And I think a lot of that's getting that position too. And, you know, I think that.

helping people to get to that place, get off some of these medicines in a slow, safe atmosphere, and get hormonally balanced is the way to go. And I encourage any man, anybody, period, who's listening, go have a talk. If your doc doesn't know or tries to minimize it, find one that doesn't. It's okay, because you have to be able to trust the person.

who's giving you the medical advice. have to be able to have, to me have a relationship. You know, I have to have a relationship with you on the simple basis. If you have to be able to trust that I have your best interest in mind, that I'm going to do something that's going to benefit and improve your quality of health in your life and be good for you. And so, yeah, I don't always choose natural pharmacological world that we are trained, that I was trained to, you know, on you. I was trained to impart, you're depressed.

Here's these drugs. these drugs are causing these side effects. Well, these drugs fix those side effects. And then you're just, I don't want to be a zombie. I want to create zombies. want men, I want men to come back to this world. know, people use that term like, well, he just means this or that. I don't mean the men that come and take, I don't mean the ones that come and take the violent. I'm not talking about the violent men that come and take things from other men.

I'm talking about the man who sits quietly and stands up when that happens and stops it. That's what I'm talking about. I want those men back. Those are the brothers that I know. That's the man I'm talking to this morning with. You know, that's who I want to be around. That's what I have a desire to be around because those guys are real. They're true and they stand up for what's right when it's right. And man, we get back to that.

We're good, man. We're good because that creates safety and safety helps recreate community. But it all starts with somebody standing up and doing the right thing. And it takes a man to do it. mean, because it's physical and people will physically take from you. It will physically take your life. Are you willing to give it for the right thing? You know, I hope I have the courage to, if my time is called, I hope I do.

I don't want to meet it with violence. That's for sure. I've seen what that does. It creates more violence. That's all it does. So I don't want to be that. I want to be the opposite. Like what I said earlier, I just want to be loved, man. So I know it sounds a little Bob Marley. Maybe I shouldn't have watched that series a little too soon, man. But.

Sean Patton (51:45)
Yeah. No, I love it. I, you know, no, think at the end of the day, leadership is an expression of love when it's done well. And, you're definitely an example of that. And like I said, I feel like, we, could go on and on. So maybe we'll have to, I'll have to drag you out to do it again sometime. But man, Scott, this was a really awesome, as always to get to talk with you and thank you for doing this today.

Scott (52:10)
Man, I appreciate your time, brother. I appreciate the invite. It means a lot, that you respect me in that way. I have the same love and respect for you. So thanks for that. I appreciate it.

Sean Patton (52:20)
Absolutely, bro. See you soon.

Scott (52:21)
All right, see you,